Evidence of meeting #119 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Josh Dehaas  Counsel, Canadian Constitution Foundation
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Geneviève Desjardins
François Côté  Attorney and Doctor of Law, Droits collectifs Québec
Geoffrey Sigalet  Assistant Professor, As an Individual
Humera Jabir  Staff Lawyer, West Coast Legal Education and Action Fund

5 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that.

This is an incredibly important topic. I want to make sure everyone's clear that I'm saying that.

I wish this had been raised, perhaps, in a subcommittee so we could have properly planned out the calendar. I'm relatively new to this committee, but in the other committees I've been on, usually there's more of a structured approach to the schedule, even if there is some disagreement as to how that schedule will occur.

I believe the motion currently calls for four meetings. We want two meetings, but it doesn't give us any type of timing as to how or when we're going to do that.

As I look at the calendar here, when we come back, we have Bill C-316. I believe it's scheduled for clause-by-clause, although we haven't gotten nearly through the witness testimony, so I don't know whether that's going to be changed. We have safe sport scheduled for May 23 and May 27. On May 30, we have the main estimates, and then we have online harms on June 3 and June 5, and that's without getting any of our other important business done.

Just on a point of clarification, I would ask in a friendly way if we have unanimous consent to having the other side...what their thought was as to when we would schedule the study for. I know it's a little bit of a break in protocol, and I would like the floor back, but if you're willing to express...that's great. If not, that's fine. You don't have to. It's not your obligation, but I was just curious.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Mrs. Romanado, let's get as much clarification on the date as we can.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC

There is no date in there, so it's up to the will of the committee when they'd like to schedule it. Nothing's getting punted if that's not the will of the committee.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

That's fine.

I believe you're the deputy House leader, Mrs. Romanado. Do I have that right?

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC

I am the former one.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

I know that you're very well aware of how to schedule the House and committees.

It's just that sometimes this committee is not operated, with all respect to all members here, at maximum efficiency. We're going to put the study forward without putting any dates up. I would hate to see our not getting our business done, such as getting through Bill C-316, of which I believe there was already an extension requested and granted by the House.

The online harms, as Mrs. Thomas said, is a very important study, as well as safe sport. Even not being on this committee, I have heard a lot about the importance of that study from my stakeholders.

It's for those reasons that I would close the debate—unless there's someone else—on the amendment to go from four to two meetings.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

The debate is now closed, so we will be calling for a vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

Is there any discussion on this motion?

I'm sorry, Michael, you're next on the list. We'll then have Ms. Ashton, Mrs. Thomas, Mr. Waugh and then Martin. The clerk ensures that I don't do anything wrong with the list, I can assure you.

Before we get to Mr. Coteau, I would like to clarify something, Mr. Lawrence. You say you've only been on this thing for a short time, and we don't follow the instructions. We started in this session with a clear idea of what the subcommittee wanted, and the committee agreed to it.

Every time we were trying to stick to the schedule.... A committee has the ability to decide what it wants to do. We have had many motions put forward by political parties to move us off the agenda. I have pled with this committee on the safe sport. I don't think it's a case of what I do as a chair or what the clerk does; it's a committee deciding what it wants to do or not do.

I think we should go to the main motion—

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

On a brief point of order, Madam Chair, I just wanted to say I was certainly not, in any way, attempting to blame the chair. I think that both you and Kevin have done a great job.

It's just, as you rightly pointed out, we have sometimes had challenges as to getting on to it. In no way did I mean to impugn your or Kevin's....

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I'm not taking personal umbrage here—I don't usually take personal umbrage. I'm just pointing out for clarification that we had a decision about where we were going to go, and each time we were moved off that decision by various things coming up. I wanted to point that out because it's come up, not just from the Liberals on this motion, but from many political parties before that.

Now, Michael, you have the floor on the motion.

May 9th, 2024 / 5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to start by saying I'm very disappointed with the Conservatives for spending over an hour discussing the length of the study and categorizing this motion as partisan. There's a mainstreaming of extremism in Canada that's taking place, and I think it's our duty as politicians to call extremism out.

The far right has been growing over the last decade in this country. During COVID, we saw a rapid rise of not only extremism, but misinformation and disinformation. We know all forms of extremism impact all communities, including the Black community, indigenous people and religious minorities like the Jewish community and the Muslim community.

It's our job as politicians to call these things out. The only way extreme hate and extremism on the far right grows is when we're silent on these issues.

This was a very simple motion. I want to go through the motion just quickly because a member of the Conservatives actually said that this motion was partisan. To me, that is unacceptable because the motion is very clear. I want to thank the member who moved this motion for bringing this to the forefront.

I want to go through the content of this motion so Canadians who are listening have a very clear understanding of what's being discussed and what the Conservatives are calling partisan.

The first part of it asks for four meetings. It's a study of the rise of far-right extremism in Canada. It wants to examine how misinformation and disinformation are used. It wants to put in better support services and preventable measures to combat this extremism. And it wants to look at how extremism, far-right extremism, impacts journalists, women, indigenous people, our first people of this country, Black people, racialized communities, members of the 2SLGBTQ community and religious minorities. Madam Chair, that includes the Jewish community and the Muslim community and all religious minorities in this country. In fact, if the members wanted to be more specific, I would be very open to that as well. That's what we're debating here.

I cannot understand why, for the last hour, the Conservatives would delay, would go in all different directions and actually go to a point where we can't even listen to our witnesses on this important study we're doing. It's completely unacceptable.

This is not a partisan issue. This is about building a better country by exposing what's wrong. I would say without question that the number one role of Canadians, of politicians, when it comes to extremism, is to call it out. Extremism flourishes when people are silent. It works in the darkness, in corners of different parts of this country and in places on the Internet that we couldn't even imagine.

This is how it works. It's a very sophisticated network. I would really stress to all members of this committee, including the Conservatives, not to take this stuff lightly.

I understand there's a sticky point here, because the leader of the Conservatives, who recently visited a camp where there were extremists and was called out for it, decided not to denounce them. This has been on more than one occasion. He's had pictures taken with the far right.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

I have a point of order.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Okay, Kevin, go ahead.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON

This is exactly what the Conservatives will do. This is a great example right now. Just for people watching—

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I'm sorry, Michael. I have a point of order on the table. I need to listen to it.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

I should remind the member—

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

This is [Inaudible—Editor] example of far right extremism to have a member—

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I am sorry, Mrs. Thomas. You do not have the floor. Mr. Waugh has the floor.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

I would—

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Mrs. Thomas, you do not have the floor. Mr. Waugh called out. He put his hand up, and he has the floor.

Please, have a little bit of respect for your colleague.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Have a little respect for your colleague, exactly, Madam Chair.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Mr. Waugh, go ahead.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Madam Chair, here we have a member talking about my leader.

Should I talk about your leader with regard to blackface? You know, it can be tit for tat here, Mr. Coteau.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON

It's not a point of order, Madam Chair. If he wants to—

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Madam Chair, we have the Prime Minister who went around in blackface in this country.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON

That's not a point of order. They're interrupting me again.