Canadian Heritage Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Respond very quickly. We're over time.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

We always try to help organizations as much as possible. I hope that the Bloc Québécois and my colleague will support budget 2024, because those supports are provided in budget 2024.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you.

For two and a half minutes, next is Ms. Ashton for the New Democratic Party.

Please go ahead.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

Minister St-Onge, the committee has heard from Ms. Tait of the CBC/Radio-Canada a number of times over the last few months as a result of job cuts at the CBC.

While I'm sure many of my Conservative colleagues are thrilled about this, it's the actions of my Liberal colleagues that concern me. I don't understand how, on one hand, Liberals can talk about how much they support the CBC/Radio-Canada but on the other hand cut 3.3% across the board, which, Ms. Tait said, led directly to job cuts that left CBC/Radio-Canada with a smaller workforce than it had when Stephen Harper left office.

If a future Conservative government wants a model for how to destroy good journalism in this country, they don't need to look further than the Liberal government's record. We are still seeing the impacts of those cuts, despite commitments in the previous budget.

Do you, as Minister of Heritage and as a key part of this government, feel responsible for those job cuts at the CBC?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I want to correct you, because there was no 3.3% reduction. Yes, Treasury Board has asked all ministers to make efforts to reduce and reallocate spending.

However, a few months ago, it was decided that CBC/Radio‑Canada would not have to make those cuts. In addition, in budget 2024, we added $42 million to help CBC/Radio‑Canada make up for the shortfall caused by the loss of advertising revenue, which, as we know, is increasingly going into the pockets of Google, Facebook and other digital platforms.

Our government has been there from the beginning, and we will continue to be there.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I want to clarify something. The government talked about these cuts, and it was Ms. Tait who told the committee that it was because of these cuts that the decision to cut jobs at CBC/Radio‑Canada was made. That's Ms. Tait's statement, not mine.

I don't know if you have anything to add on that. What do you have to say to Canadians who have lost their jobs at the CBC/Radio‑Canada? Do you take responsibility for that?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

According to Ms. Tait's latest statements, there will be no further job cuts, since CBC/Radio‑Canada did not have to apply the 3.3% cuts and the government added $42 million to this year's budget. So the broadcaster will be able to maintain those jobs. For us, it was a priority to ensure that Canadians, more particularly—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Minister, thank you.

Seeing as the clock is at 4:32, I'd like to complete the second round, but I would reduce the Conservatives and Liberals to three minutes each.

Could you agree to that? Six minutes...?

We're at 4:31. The minister was here for an hour.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

No. We didn't get started until 3:42.

[A voice]

It was 3:38.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

It was 3:38. Well, we have time, then.

Mr. Gourde, go ahead for five minutes for the Conservative Party.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, thank you for being with us.

I'm going to ask you a quick, easy question: Do you agree, yes or no, with the derogatory comments made by your colleague Francis Drouin at the Standing Committee on Official Languages?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

No. My colleague has apologized.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Should Mr. Drouin resign or withdraw from the Standing Committee on Official Languages?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

It's up to the people to decide, and I believe there was a vote on this.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

The seven executives at CBC/Radio‑Canada receive an average salary, including their bonuses, of $540,000 a year. That's almost double your salary and more than the salary of the Prime Minister. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation has launched a lawsuit against CBC/Radio‑Canada to find out the proportion of premiums paid on that total salary.

Is this lack of transparency normal for CBC/Radio‑Canada, considering that it is taxpayers' taxes that pay these salaries?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I find it interesting that you raise that question. I think you were part of the Harper government when it took power in 2006. I want to remind you that Mr. Harper's first initiative was to grant a 3% increase to the heads of Crown corporations, including CBC/Radio‑Canada. He explained it by the fact that he felt that our Crown corporations and the public sector, generally speaking, should be able to compete with the private sector.

Am I to conclude that you no longer agree with that now? And yet you were part of that government.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Madam Minister, there is a lack of transparency. Is it normal, yes or no, that we can't know the salary and the amount of bonuses paid to these senior executives?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

The salary grids are public.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation couldn't get them. So they're not public yet.

In the 1990s, the Liberal government cut $400 million from the CBC, which today, in constant dollars, is about $750 million. Is your reform next fall going to go in that direction?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

First, we are working on the financial structure of CBC/Radio‑Canada, because, as a result of declining advertising revenues, it's facing the same difficulties as the private sector. In order for it to be sustainable over the long term, we need to look at its financial structure.

Then we look at the governance, transparency and accountability of the public broadcaster, because we want to ensure that there is a true close relationship with Canadians. That's one of the things we're looking at.

Finally, we want to determine the role that a good public broadcaster should play in 2024, in the era of disinformation generated by digital platforms, so that services are offered to the public, particularly in terms of information.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

Will you have the same courage as the Chrétien Liberal government, which made $400 million in cuts in the late 1990s, which today amounts to $750 million?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I clearly said in my opening remarks that I found it irresponsible for a government, at a time when digital platforms have a major impact on the sector, to—

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

—disinvest in the public broadcaster. That would be irresponsible and we will not do it.