Canadian Heritage Committee on June 6th, 2024

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Insofar as communities outside of Quebec take advantage…. I want to withdraw what I just said because the francophone communities outside of Quebec are already very active and very proactive in terms of the CRTC's consultation processes. They are being consulted systematically. The only thing it would add to what is already the case, is warning the Quebec government or at least letting it know when something is about to be studied by the CRTC and that consultations on regulatory matters are about to begin. This would enable the Quebec government to make proposals and ask questions, or even let things go if it deems that it's unnecessary for it to comment on an issue.

When all is said and done, it doesn't change much for the CRTC. It simply allows Quebec to react more promptly and effectively when required.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Would this proposed consultation obligation apply to all regulations introduced by the CRTC?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

It only applies to the rules affecting broadcasting in Quebec. It only concerns those that could have an impact on Quebec and francophone culture.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You've partly answered my last two questions, but I want to ask them anyway.

Does this consultation obligation give decision-making power to Quebec and the provincial governments?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

No. It only gives them the power to be consulted or notified when a consultation affecting them is about to begin.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

How would Bill C‑354 contribute to official language minority communities?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

We spoke about that earlier, but I answered Mr. Godin's question rather briefly because I was running out of time. There is a level of sensitivity that needs to be taken into consideration in Bill C‑354, and in regulatory matters and decisions in general, with respect to francophone communities outside of Quebec, which do not experience the same reality as Quebec francophones.

A consultation process is already in place. What Bill C‑354 adds is the systematic consultation of provincial and even territorial governments as well. The idea of consulting territories was in fact previously raised. We know, for example, that there's a very dynamic francophone community in the Yukon. So perhaps the territories would also want to be consulted.

However, at meetings where the bill is to be studied, I would like to see that concerns expressed by members of francophone communities outside of Quebec be heard, because relations with their provincial government can be inconsistent. For a while, they might have a government that appreciates their concerns and their circumstances, and at other times, one that does not. I'm not convinced, for example, that New Brunswick Acadians would trust their current government to defend their interests. So sensitivity needs to be factored in. I am also definitely prepared to amend this portion of the bill about the consultation of provincial governments to ensure that when the definitive version has been reached, francophone communities outside of Quebec, and the groups that represent them, can feel reassured about the legislation we are working towards.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux, for your leadership in this matter.

I have just over a minute left. Would you like to add anything?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

It's kind of you to offer me just over a minute to add something. It doesn't happen often, so I'm going to take advantage of your offer.

I'd like to go back to Mr. Noormohamed's question, because I sense an ideological opposition to the bill's underlying principle. When you stop and look closely at what Bill C‑354 really is, it's clear that it is neither a binding bill, nor one that negatively affects the rights of Quebec's anglophone minority, which is very well served, with its own broadcasting system, and lots radio stations and news media.

In short, it does not interfere in any way with this community. If it were to do so, I'd be interested in hearing about amendments to correct it, because that's not its purpose at all.

The impression I'm getting, then, is that the arguments against the bill are mainly ideological and coming from a specific faction of this caucus, but I'd like to reassure the members. It's not a separatist matter, but rather an effort to acknowledge the cultural distinctiveness of Quebec and the fact that broadcasting decisions have an impact on Quebec culture. The only objective is for the Quebec government to be consulted, in the form of being told that something is coming and being asked whether it has any comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Martin. You're going over.

Niki Ashton, you have six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Okay, thank you very much.

The relationship between francophone communities and the CRTC has been in place for many years. The CRTC is well aware of the francophone stakeholders who are most likely to come and discuss francophone markets outside of Quebec. This relationship should be encouraged, and it's important to ensure that the CRTC clearly consults francophone communities with respect to francophone markets.

Would you be prepared to back a change in support for francophone communities outside of Quebec with respect to its related markets, while maintaining the aspect of Quebec's distinctiveness with respect to its own francophone market, as stated in the bill?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much for your question.

I answered it a little earlier, but I'm happy to answer it more specifically now. The answer is yes, we are going to do whatever is necessary to ensure that francophone communities outside of Quebec can feel that this legislation, once in place, might possibly be a tool for them, and that it is definitely not something that would interfere with a process that is already working very well for them.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Let's look at a specific example.

In our institutions, there is sometimes a disconnect with respect to adaptations in French. A few months ago, there was talk about a Canadian podcast called ALONE A Love Story. CBC Podcasts decided to use the services of a studio in Paris because it felt that a Quebec accent wouldn't have as much international potential. Once the news got out about it, they changed their minds and it came back to Canada.

Do you think that if Quebec had been consulted, it would have recommended to the CBC that it should avoid a Quebec accent?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I think that CBC/Radio-Canada made a mistake. The president acknowledged it and apologized. I can't see how Quebec, if consulted by the CRTC, would ever recommend to the CBC that it shouldn't avoid the Quebec accent. In any event, if Quebec had been consulted about something like that I'm sure that they would have said not to avoid the Quebec accent.

And you have to be careful. There's not just one Quebec accident, but all kinds. There are French-Canadian and European accents, but also dozens of regional accents; Gaspé and the Magdalen Islands are only a couple of examples, and then there's Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean and Abitibi.

I'm sorry about your Abitibi accent, Mr. Lemire. You don't in fact have an accent.

All of which is to say that when Quebec dubbing specialists make productions for foreign markets, they use a version of French described as international French, which is much more neutral. They use a version of French with a much less pronounced accent than French studios use. It would be wrong to think that Quebec productions are made with a Quebec accent and that these productions are less marketable abroad as a result. The fact is that productions made in France are far less neutral than what the Quebec dubbing industry is capable of doing.

To answer your question, it would perhaps be worth doing a better job of publicizing this to ensure that people at the CBC wouldn't hesitate to use Quebec companies to translate their podcasts.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Right. Thank you. We agree.

I'd like to switch to an English question.

We've heard a number of concerning statements, from both the leader of the official opposition and the Conservatives in this committee, attacking and referring to defunding the CBC. At the same time, we saw a direct line between the Liberals' threatening cuts to the CBC/Radio-Canada and CBC responding with layoffs.

The loss of the CBC/Radio-Canada would be a disaster. It would be a disaster for communities like the ones that I represent, for communities across the country, that depend on the CBC for local news. It would also be a devastating loss for francophones outside of Quebec, who look to Radio-Canada to get good journalism about their reality in their language, not to mention, obviously, the implications in Quebec itself.

The Conservatives have played political games with respect to the future of CBC and, by association, Radio-Canada. We know from the past that Conservatives would not hesitate to cut the CBC and Radio-Canada once in power, as they did before.

How do you see this bill helping empower media in French, including when it comes to protecting Radio-Canada?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

It's a bill that asks the CRTC to systematically consult Quebec, and perhaps the provinces or communities, depending on the final form it takes. It's not a bill that necessarily has anything to do with what happens at CBC/Radio-Canada. I wouldn't want to go on at length or in too much detail, even if you know me and are aware of the fact that it's a matter I feel strongly about.

I'll simply say that if the Quebec government were consulted about the status of the CBC, I'm sure it would say that the CBC is an essential vehicle for francophone culture and Quebec culture, and that being the case, cutting back on funding for CBC/Radio-Canada as a public broadcaster would probably be a serious mistake. Nevertheless, I can't speak on behalf of the Quebec government. The CRTC did not consult the Quebec government in a context not unlike what we would have with the adoption of Bill C‑354. Quebec would no doubt agree with me in saying that the CBC is a vehicle for culture.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton. I think your time is up.

Go ahead, Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Madam Chair, it being 5:54, I would move that we adjourn the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Do I have any objection to that?

Is there unanimous consent?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have a point of order.

We need to thank the witnesses before we leave.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I would like to thank the witness for coming today and presenting to us.

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

The meeting is adjourned.