Canadian Heritage Committee on June 6th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting back to order.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, February 28, 2024, we are commencing consideration of Bill C-354, an act to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act, regarding Quebec’s cultural distinctiveness and French-speaking communities.

The sponsor of this bill was Mario Beaulieu. We have Mr. Martin Champoux, who is going to present on his behalf because he is not able to be here.

Mr. Champoux, you have five minutes for your opening statement. I will give you a 30-second cue when you're getting there.

Thank you.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's an honour for me to speak to the members of the committee today about Bill C-354, which was sponsored in the House of Commons by my colleague the member for La Pointe-de-l'Île, Mario Beaulieu.

As my colleague could not be here today, I'm happy to be able to speak on his behalf about our bill, which is very straightforward.

Subsection 12(1) under the heading “In relation to broadcasting” in the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act, states: “The objects and powers of the Commission in relation to broadcasting are as set out in the Broadcasting Act”.

We propose the addition of a “Consultation” section and a new subsection 12(1.1):

Consultation (1.1) The Commission shall consult with the Government of Quebec about the cultural distinctiveness of Quebec and with the governments of the other provinces about the French-speaking markets in those provinces before furthering the objects and exercising the powers referred to in subsection (1) in respect of the aspects of the Canadian broadcasting system that concern those matters.

This bill is not really very complicated. It constitutes a response to the express request submitted on February 4, 2023 by Quebec's Minister of Culture and Communications, Mathieu Lacombe, in a letter he had sent to Mr. Pablo Rodriguez, the then Minister of Canadian Heritage.

At the time, the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage had completed its study of Bill C-11, whose purpose was to amend the Broadcasting Act. Following study in the Senate, the bill was referred back to the House to obtain approval for the final amendments proposed by the Senate.

The recommendations in the letter to Mr. Rodriguez included the Quebec minister's demand, or firm suggestion, that Quebec be consulted systematically when the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, the CRTC, was developing regulations and decisions that could have an impact on Quebec and francophone culture, and on the Quebec broadcasting system.

The Bloc Québécois is convinced that telecommunications and broadcasting are extremely important for the vitality of Quebec's culture. Broadcasting has a direct impact on our language and culture. Bill C-354 is a modest attempt at a minimal response to the expectations and concerns of Quebeckers with respect to the culture and management of their broadcasting ecosystem.

Quebec has always developed its own rules for the broadcasting sector and has always striven for more autonomy. I would like to take you back to 1929, when the premier of Quebec at the time was Louis‑Alexandre Taschereau, who adopted the first “law respecting broadcasting in this province”. That was the actual name of the act. Later, in the 1930s, the federal government followed his lead and adopted a broadcasting act, which led to the establishment of the CRTC as we know it today.

However, over the years, various successive Quebec governments—and they were certainly not all sovereignists—with several federalist Liberal governments among others, working towards more autonomy and more power for the Government of Quebec with respect to broadcasting. In 2008, Christine St‑Pierre and Benoît Pelletier, both Liberal ministers in the Quebec government, sent the following letter:

This letter is written to inform the federal government of Quebec's desire to begin talks, as soon as possible, with a view to concluding a Canada-Quebec agreement for the broadcasting and telecommunications sector and an agreement relating to culture. Considering the distinct culture of Quebec, the only French-speaking state in North America, we feel that concluding such an administrative agreement would make it possible to better reflect the specific characteristics of Quebec content in broadcasting and telecommunications, and would serve as recognition of the importance of protecting and promoting Quebec's specific culture.

CRTC decisions have an impact on francophone and Quebec culture. CRTC decisions have an impact on Quebec broadcasting, and we think that it is important for Quebec to automatically be consulted in advance by the CRTC when it is undertaking work on Quebec and francophone broadcasting and culture.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. I will open this up to questions for the witness.

Are there any questions?

Mr. Noormohamed, go ahead.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I just have one question for Mr. Champoux, for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect. Is it not problematic to try to legislate a direction—

I'm sorry—aren't they supposed to go first?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Are we not doing question rounds? We always....

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I was just going to see whose hands went up.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have only one question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It seemed that nobody put their hand up.

Are you going to start? Okay.

We're splitting the time, six minutes, between Rachael Thomas and Joël Godin.

Go ahead.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to share my speaking time with my colleague Ms. Thomas.

Well done, Mr. Champoux, in consideration of the fact that in February 2023, when Bill C-11 was being studied, the Conservative Party, like the Bloc Québécois, had acknowledged the asymmetry of Quebec with respect to the other provinces and territories of Canada. We know something about how the Liberals feel about the situation today. All that's needed is a look at the Standing Committee on Official Languages, of which I am the vice-chair, where we have had to deal with some witnesses in a special way. One MP mentioned that Quebec ought to be bilingual and another said that French was not really on the decline in Quebec. I don't know where the Liberals want to go with this.

Now, Mr. Champoux, I'd like to know the intent behind this bill. There should, of course, be prior consultation in Quebec, to protect the distinctiveness of Quebec, which I often call “the Gaulish village”.

Why were the other provinces and territories included in the bill? Your argument is based on representations by the Quebec Minister of Culture and Communications, Mr. Lacombe, and two Liberal Quebec ministers, who said that it was important. A distinction needs to be made between the two parties, because they are not the same, at least to my knowledge.

I'd like to hear your comments on that.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Godin, for that excellent question.

I will briefly give you some background.

People are often under the impression that the Bloc Québécois speaks only for Quebec. The Bloc Québécois speaks on behalf of Quebec culture, but also on behalf of French in general. As you pointed out, we in Quebec are like a Gaulish village. We are eight million francophones in an ocean of 360 million to 370 million anglophones. We need to protect this distinctiveness. After all, Quebec, as you said, is like the Gaulish village.

However, beyond this Gaulish village, there are other communities, and they're important too. When we are considering a bill or a measure that might be applied to Quebec, we think about the francophone communities outside of Quebec because we are often in touch with them and discuss these issues.

Adding the other provinces was a way of telling the francophone communities outside of Quebec that we weren't only thinking about Quebec. We know that they too are concerned about regulations and decisions pertaining to French that are issued by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, the CRTC, and these communities should also have a say in these matters.

We were just talking about consulting the provinces. I think that might not be obligatory. Some provinces might say that they don't want to be consulted, and that would be the end of it. It's no more complicated than that. I thought it was important to let the francophone communities outside of Quebec know that in introducing this proposed amendment to the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act, we were not just thinking about ourselves. We were thinking about all francophones in Canada.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

Did you consult the communities—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Godin, you have two minutes and 48 seconds. I don't know if you want to give it over to Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I think we're good.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You'll let him keep going. Okay.

Go ahead.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Just tell me when it's the last minute, when I finish my turn, and I'll split my time with Mrs. Thomas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Champoux, I just wanted to ask the following questions.

First, did you consult the official language minority communities outside of Quebec?

Secondly, pursuant to the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act, the official language minority communities have already been consulted. I'm wondering about adding another layer of consultations for the provinces and territories. Our discussions with these organizations informed us that it often amounted to an additional hurdle for them. Were there consultations about this? Did you consider the possibility of leaving other provinces and territories in Canada out of these consultations?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That's a good question, and you're absolutely right.

It's a sensitive issue that we only heard about after the fact. We held discussions with representatives from various francophone communities outside of Quebec. This issue was mentioned to us, as well as the fact that the provincial government was not always the best entity for dealing with the CRTC. In fact, these communities should probably continue to be the CRTC's initial contact during consultations.

We would be open to proposed amendments provided that they respond to the concerns of francophone communities. We would very likely be prepared to adapt everything.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

Rachael, you have one minute and 25 seconds.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

At this point, I just wish to move a motion. I'm hoping that it will be rather quick. I'm certainly not wanting to interrupt. I'm wanting to get back to the conversation that is at hand. I gave notice of this motion at our last meeting.

It reads as follows:

Given that,

The CBC receives $1.4 billion from taxpayers;

The CBC holds the rights to broadcast the NHL playoffs;

The CBC chose not to broadcast the Edmonton Oilers game that sent them to the Stanley Cup finals;

The committee calls on the CBC to commit to broadcasting all Stanley Cup final games and report this finding to the House.

That is my motion, which I wish to move on behalf of Canadians so that they can watch the Stanley Cup.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Your motion is on the table, duly presented 48 hours beforehand.

Yes, Mr. Noormohamed, go ahead on the motion.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mrs. Thomas will be happy to know that, in fact, the CBC is broadcasting the Oilers' Stanley Cup games. It will indeed, I assume, also broadcast when they win the Stanley Cup, bringing the cup back home to Canada, so I don't think we need to worry too much about that.

I also think it's important to note that, in fact, the rights holder is Rogers, which paid $5.2 billion for the rights through 2025-26, but thanks to an arrangement that's been reached between Rogers and CBC, we don't even need to worry about this motion or vote for it because the CBC is already broadcasting the NHL Stanley Cup finals in which the Edmonton Oilers, I predict, will win the Stanley Cup.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Ashton, go ahead on this motion.

Thank you.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

We're happy to support this motion. I think it sends an important message.

I think it's great that agreement has been reached. Having said that, I think the fact that we haven't been able to watch hockey games on the CBC up to now is a problem. I think it's a very strong message to send on behalf of Canadians that, as a committee, we support the CBC showing the playoffs. Frankly, we hope that this sets a precedent for the future, as well as many more Canadian teams, hopefully, winning in the future in addition to the Oilers this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Michael, is this on the motion?