Canadian Heritage Committee on June 18th, 2024

[Manon Henrie-Cadieux]

I don't have any information on the CRTC's processes for involving Quebec or hearing its perspective. I can comment only on the rights that francophone minority communities enjoy.

We have full confidence in the legislators, who have ensured that the new Online Streaming Act reinforces the obligation to consult francophone minority communities and provides details on how to go about it. In particular, I would draw your attention to the new section 5.2 of the Broadcasting Act, all of which is worth reading because it is a clear game changer in terms of the quality of the process that must be followed.

Earlier in the discussion, people talked about the opinions that the CRTC hears and expressed concerns about the consideration those opinions are given. Over the past year, the FCCF and the FCFA have raised the issue of low francophone representation in CRTC leadership, linguistically and culturally. It is encouraging to see that there have been significant appointments to address that, but new people cannot comment on processes and decisions from before their time. We would like to know more about the possible repercussions of the decisions already made by the CRTC and the decisions it is about to make on the rights of our communities. We will be following that closely.

I can also attest to something we observed during the public hearings held as part of the ongoing consultation process, which is far from over. There were times when, as legitimate representatives of francophone minority communities, we felt that French did not carry as much weight as it would if Quebec's comments had been fully heard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 32 seconds.

Martin, are you good?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, it is my colleague Mr. Noormohamed's turn, but I can certainly take some of his time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I know. Are you good for 32 seconds?

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

All of that is understood. However, in my opinion, adding something like that would not change the way the CRTC conducts its consultations. That said, I think that the discussions and even the CRTC's mandate, particularly in light of Bill C‑11, will help improve the process. I think this is how we will be able to accomplish what you want to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.

Martin, you have six minutes, please.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, I want to say how impressed I am by Mr. Noormohamed's French skills. He spoke only French for his entire six minutes. Given that we are studying a bill that deals with protecting French and francophone culture, I find that admirable. I just wanted to point that out. Hats off to him.

Ladies and gentlemen, I am pleased to see the three of you here. We've met on a number of occasions, in many different situations, and I've had the opportunity to discuss with some of you the concerns around Bill C‑354 and the provisions relating to consultation with the provinces.

Ms. Henrie‑Cadieux, you said in your remarks that you completely agree with the Quebec consultation mechanism and believe that it is good not only for Quebec, but also for French throughout Canada. Obviously, I find it very rewarding to see that Quebec, which strongly defends French and has powerful tools to defend francophone culture, has an influence outside Quebec. Can you expand on that?

[Manon Henrie-Cadieux]

We are deeply concerned by the complexity of the challenges we face in protecting and promoting French, given the observation of its decline and other indicators of urgency. I'm thinking in particular of the general perception, also expressed by Radio‑Canada, that French‑language cultural content no longer attracts young people.

I can't sound the alarm loudly enough to wake us up to the importance of these objectives, especially since you have just modernized the Official Languages Act, which has evolved in a different way this time. In fact, you've chosen to raise it to a higher level and you've demanded that positive measures be taken that must produce concrete effects, which we'll be able to measure.

I invite you not to be satisfied with hearing about these positive measures, but to go so far as to verify the proof of their outcomes. As part of the public process we're involved in, which still has several important milestones in store for us, this will certainly be central to what we say.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Henrie‑Cadieux.

Ms. Roy, earlier, you talked about the consultation process. You talked about the link that exists between the CRTC and your organization, in particular when there are hearings and consultations, discussions that are held systematically.

How are the CRTC's interlocutors chosen for proceedings or hearings that are to lead to regulation? Is it always the same organizations that participate in hearings? If not, are they designated? How do we know that the organizations who are going to be the CRTC's interlocutors are systematically the right ones?

[Liane Roy]

As all three of us mentioned, there is a CRTC‑OLMC discussion group, which holds meetings about upcoming public hearings. At these meetings, it is sometimes recommended that such and such an organization be included in the consultation process. However, as I am not the member of this discussion group, I will ask Mr. Quinty to provide you with more details.

[Serge Quinty]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Champoux. I would mention two factors.

First, in the case of its public hearings, the CRTC operates by appeal, by notice of consultation. Anyone from civil society, anyone, in fact, can intervene before the CRTC. People who participate are not necessarily invited to appear before the CRTC. You have to have a foot in the door, you have to submit an application to participate by the deadline. If you don't, you simply can't participate in the public hearings.

Secondly, there is indeed this CRTC‑OLMC discussion group, which brings together all the French-speaking provincial and territorial organizations, members of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, the federation itself, the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française, the Alliance des producteurs francophones du Canada, the Alliance nationale de l'industrie musicale, and representatives of the English‑speaking community. At present, however, this CRTC‑OLMC discussion group is not a consultative body, and that's what we're trying to change.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Quinty.

Madam Chair, there are about 30 seconds left, and I just want to take this opportunity to thank—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 36 seconds.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

So I have six more seconds to express my thoughts.

I just want to thank Ms. Roy, Ms. Henrie‑Cadieux and Mr. Quinty for their open‑mindedness. They didn't hesitate to share their concerns about this mention of other provincial governments as part of the consultation process we're requesting for the Quebec government. This has enabled us to have discussions to which we are very open.

In fact, if an amendment were tabled to ensure that francophone groups outside Quebec are reassured about the consultations we're trying to put in place, the Bloc Québécois would be absolutely open to welcoming and supporting it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I will now go to the NDP and Niki Ashton.

Niki, you have six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank the witnesses very much for joining us today.

Ms. Roy, as president of the FCFA, you clearly explain the situation in which we find ourselves in Canada, that is, the danger posed by the decline of French. Tools have been made available to us through Bill C‑13, and I'm very proud to have worked closely with the former minister of official languages to get a better bill passed. However, it doesn't change the need to move things forward in all areas, if there's a political will to stop this decline of French.

Let's go back to Bill C‑354, which states, among other things, that the CRTC must consult provincial governments other than the government of Quebec about French‑language markets when regulating and monitoring the Canadian broadcasting system.

According to everything we've seen from their governments, do you believe that people like Blaine Higgs in New Brunswick or Danielle Smith in Alberta are acting in the interests of francophone communities and aiming to protect their rights? Do you think it's essential to add measures in this bill to ensure that francophone communities themselves are heard by the CRTC, not only to protect their rights, but also to halt the decline of French in our country?

[Liane Roy]

Thank you for the question, Ms. Ashton, and thank you again for all the work you have done on Bill C‑13.

From our point of view, it's not so much a question of consulting the provinces as it is of consulting those best placed to talk about the cultural specificity of francophone communities and markets. For us, it's the organizations representing them that would be best placed in the provinces to determine the needs in these areas in relation to what we're discussing today.

Also, when we talk about francophone markets, we need to make sure that we understand the concerns of our communities, as you so aptly put it. It's very important that we understand and define what a francophone market is.

I'll pass the floor to FCFA communications director Serge Quinty if he would like to add something.

[Serge Quinty]

Ms. Ashton, to answer your question, I would say two things.

First of all, it's clear that the relationships that francophone communities in a minority setting have with their government are quite variable. They can vary greatly from province to province and from government to government. Earlier, I mentioned that the same organizations have been sitting on the CRTC‑OLMC discussion group for 18 years now. During that time, there has been a succession of governments in the various provinces and territories. Some were more open to the francophonie, others less so. Some had easier relations, others more difficult. Some were well aware of community concerns, others less so. So it's clear to us that it's our organizations that are best placed to speak to these realities.

Next, I would add that our goal here is to avoid a possible conflict of interpretation between the Online Streaming Act and the bill you are currently studying. If the Online Streaming Act says that the CRTC must consult official language minority communities, but this bill says that the CRTC must consult provincial and territorial governments first, there's a potential conflict of interpretation: Which act or group would take precedence over the other? That's what we're trying to avoid at this stage.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

All right. Thank you very much for this clear message from the French-speaking communities.

Ms. Henrie‑Cadieux, how satisfied are you with the CRTC's consultation process? I know you've talked about it before, but can you tell us where things stand now and why it's so important to improve the situation?

[Manon Henrie-Cadieux]

We benefit from active listening. We have an ongoing consultation process that touches every facet and dimension of the entire Canadian cultural sector. As I've already said, the process is far from over, and a very important step is just around the corner.

As my colleague Mr. Quinty explained earlier, it's the CRTC website that informs us of upcoming consultations. On March 25, we met with the CRTC as part of its focus group. At the time, we were given to understand that we would soon be very happy and privileged, because an important public consultation phase was being prepared that would address our concerns in greater detail. Since then, information has been updated on the site. An entry entitled “Summer 2024” indicates that it refers to an exceptional activity aimed at strengthening the CRTC's commitment to official languages, but it does not mention public consultation per se.

We have recently expressed our concern about this watered‑down language, but we have received all the preliminary assurances that the intention is still to consult us regarding the new section 5.2 of the Broadcasting Act, which has strengthened the way in which we are to be consulted, precisely, and has provided details on how to proceed. We're very much looking forward to this stage. We need to know when it's going to happen so we can prepare properly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Madame Henrie-Cadieux. We must wrap up now. We've gone over time on this.

[Technical difficulty—Editor] answering questions and sharing with us their insights and wishes.

I was going to suspend this meeting to go in camera, but I have been informed that many members of this committee feel that we could seek to get the drafting instructions on the study on the media via email, because we do not have a lot of time left to finish the drafting instructions, as we had hoped.

Is everyone in agreement that we do that? If you are, then I will move that this meeting be adjourned.

If everyone's in agreement to send it in by email, we need to set a deadline for that. Does anyone have a deadline in mind?

Michael.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

What if there's a dispute in drafting instructions?

If I send one in and, for example, Kevin doesn't agree with that, how do you deal with that? Do you just send a message back?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The analysts will look at the drafting instructions. If they are what we heard at committee, then that would obviously be input. Then when we look at the draft, we can say, no, we don't like this or we don't like that.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Perfect.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's one way of doing it, and it would save a lot of time.

What I'm looking for is a deadline for submitting these drafting instructions. I thought you were going to suggest a deadline, Mr. Coteau.