Evidence of meeting #127 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was hours.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Can we get an update on exactly where we were during the last meeting, when he had the floor? What was the discussion then? It's many months ago.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
No. He had the floor when he decided the motion he put forward was to go in public. He won that motion. We're now in public, and he suggested that he still had the floor. I suggested that unless he had a new motion, his old motion had been voted on and carried, so it was open to anyone else putting their hand up. That was my decision.
Now, obviously, most of the committee disagreed with me and agreed with Mr. Kurek, so Mr. Kurek now has the floor.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Does moving a motion and having it voted on allow you to keep your spot after the motion is dealt with?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Well, I don't know. We had a vote, Mr. Coteau, and I have to bow to the will of the committee. That's what I'm here to do.
If the committee—
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Just to be clear, Chair, it suggests that, because he called for a motion to go public, he had the floor at that point even though that motion was voted on.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
That's what Mr. Kurek is suggesting. I am disagreeing with him on this issue, yet the committee agreed with him and not with the chair's ruling. There we go. The decision has been made. The vote has been taken.
Mr. Kurek, you have the floor.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I will endeavour to be very quick.
With the revelation that the CBC awarded $18.4 million in bonuses last year but still cut hundreds of jobs across that organization, to learn in the last number of months that $3.3 million went to just 45 executives is astounding. To put that in perspective, that would be $73,000 in bonuses alone for each executive.
Therefore, Madam Chair, I would hope that I find support and that we can dispose of this quickly—this egregious abuse of tax dollars—to get answers, specifically when it comes to the CEO of CBC, Ms. Catherine Tait. In her previous testimony before this committee, she had made overtures and commitments that certainly she had no intention of following through on.
Madam Chair, as I mentioned, I hope this can be disposed of quickly and that there would be support from all parties to get to the bottom of this.
I would move:
Given that,
The CBC paid out $18.4 million in bonuses this year, including $3.3 million to top executives, after eliminating hundreds of jobs,
The committee immediately call the President and CEO of the CBC, Ms. Catherine Tait, to testify for no less than three hours, within 14 calendar days of the adoption of this motion, and
the Minister of Canadian Heritage, Pascale St-Onge, to testify for no less than three hours, within 14 calendar days of the adoption of this motion, and that these two witnesses appear separately.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you.
You have the motion. You heard it.
We have Mr. Waugh and then Mr. Beaulieu.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
I'll be very quick.
I certainly agree with this motion. We've had Ms. Tait several times now to the heritage committee trying to explain bonuses or performance bonuses or whatever she calls it.
I think when this news broke in late June or early July, Canadians were taken aback. They were surprised at the $18.4 million in bonuses last year to this year. We still don't know her bonus situation, Chair. She didn't receive the bonus, we understand, from 2022, I believe. She did not say in committee, when she did come, that she received her bonus.
Now we know that Ms. Tait is leaving the CBC. Her intention is to retire this coming January, so I think it's very important that the committee hear from Ms. Tait on the direction that the CBC is going and the $18.4 million in bonuses that were handed out.
The Canadian Taxpayers Association, or whoever it was, exposed this in late June. While she was here, I do give her credit for saying it was the board, but it was the Privy Council or the minister who approved this. I too would like to hear from Ms. Tait at the heritage committee.
Thank you.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
I'd like to make an amendment to the motion to delete the part about the minister. We think it's appropriate to invite Ms. Tait to come and explain herself for three hours. However, considering that the minister is in the process of giving her a new mandate to change things, we feel it's less relevant for her to come and testify.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Please read your amendment. You want to remove the last piece—the Minister of Canadian Heritage.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
We propose removing the following paragraph: “and the Minister of Canadian Heritage, Pascale Saint‑Onge, to testify for no less than 3 hours each, within 14 calendar days of the adoption of this motion, and that these two witnesses appear separately.”
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you.
We now have an amendment on the floor. We're going to deal with the amendment.
Regarding the amendment, Mr. Noormohamed, go ahead.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The substance of the motion in respect of calling Ms. Tait is important. I think it's important for us to have this thoughtful discussion and debate. I think it's important for us to be able to ask questions of her, given that this has been a topic of a lot of conversation in this committee.
I would agree with Mr. Beaulieu's point of view on this, given the importance of separating the role of the minister in all of this. I think the importance really is to have Madam Tait here to have that conversation and to not muddy the waters with anything else.
We would be very much in support of Mr. Beaulieu's amendment. If that amendment does pass, we would be supportive of the motion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you.
Is there any further discussion on the amendment?
Go ahead, Mr. Waugh.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Yes, I will support the amendment. At the same time, I want people around the table to realize that it was the Privy Council and the Minister of Canadian Heritage who signed off on the bonuses. That's the only statement I'm going to make right now.
September 18th, 2024 / 6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
I'll support the amendment, but I also want everyone around the table to realize who signed off on it.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB
We will support the amendment, although I will say that clearly there are questions for the Minister of Heritage that I hope we might get to at another time.
Having said that, I think the broader motion is critical. We know that Ms. Tait and the CBC board cannot continue in the way they have. Canadians, I think, are not just disappointed but angered by the fact that $18.4 million in bonuses was given out to CBC executives, with $3.3 million going to top executives while job cuts were being threatened and local journalism was being lost, including in regions like mine, which has no CBC presence.
This is wrong, but for some reason Ms. Tait thinks that everything's okay. She doesn't seem to understand that her actions threaten the legitimacy of the CBC, an institution that we should all be proud of.
While CBC employees struggle with job insecurity, with lower wages than they deserve, with a culture of fear and reprisal when they speak out, a small group of CBC executives has been allowed to get rich off the backs of Canadians. We believe that this is not okay.
I also want to indicate that Liberal mismanagement is at play here. We know that the threat to cut funding to the CBC was also an instigator, or put into motion, a number of things that were deeply problematic. We also know that deep cuts made during the time of Stephen Harper set the CBC back in irreparable ways in some cases.
However, I would say that the Liberals may pat themselves on the back for being...not conservative, but imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. I wish we could hear from all government representatives who have a hand in how the CBC is funded and had a hand in approving these bonuses.
Having said that, I think it is critical to move forward with hearing from Ms. Tait, who did not answer this question as it should have been answered when she was here. It's very clear to me that Canadians deserve answers from the CBC, from the head of the CBC, right away. I believe that we, as the heritage committee, need to make sure that this happens as soon as possible.
Liberal
Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I would agree with the amendment. I think it's important to have the CBC CEO and president join us.
In the conversation we had with Ms. Tait a few months ago, there were some very specific questions about the willingness to change the bonus structure at the CBC, and it seemed like there was a willingness to explore that. I would like to know, personally, if that has been a discussion item within their executive and within their board.
Also, I remember saying when she was here that the way in which Canadians perceive this is not aligned with where Canadians are, so I think it would be a great idea to request that she join this committee to answer some further questions.
I do believe that the amendment is a good amendment in that we can focus on the CBC specifically, on the president and the CEO's position on these issues.