Evidence of meeting #135 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artistic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
It's been described largely as backdoor censorship, the Justin Trudeau and Liberal censorship agenda. They're not telling people that they can't believe something, but they're restricting, through technological means—algorithms—the content that's available.
Would you agree with that?
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
Yes, I think that you could describe it as backdoor censorship. It's not censorship in the classic form, but it's a big problem.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Thank you for that.
I'm curious about Bill C-18. Again, do you see Bill C-18 as being in conflict with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the freedoms guaranteed for Canadians in it?
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
It depends on how the regulations are going to be interpreted with respect to the Online News Act. It's not censorship in the classic form that we think of, but depending on how it's operationalized, there could be a charter case to be made against that particular piece of legislation.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Did you find it problematic that, as a result of Bill C-18, news content on some of the most used social media apps in the country was eliminated, restricting Canadians' ability to see what was happening in the world?
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
Yes. This was in direct response to government action. Meta took the action of blocking news on Canadian versions of their platforms, including Facebook and Instagram. Millions of Canadians were accessing news that way.
It actually undermines the ability of the free press to function because of the loss of clicks, which is how some of their revenue was being generated. Sharing news is not a threat to the news industry.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
We have Bill C-11 and Bill C-18, and I know you mentioned Bill C-63 as well—direct threats to Canadians and the freedoms that Canadians are guaranteed through the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That certainly seems like a censorship agenda to me that needs to be fought against.
Thank you very much to the witnesses for coming today.
October 30th, 2024 / 5:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you, Mr. Kurek.
For the final four minutes, we welcome Mrs. Shanahan from the Liberal Party.
Go ahead.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Normally I'd be very happy to be asking my questions, but Mr. Noormohamed was on such a roll, I am ceding my time to him.
Conservative
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Van Geyn, you and I were having a good conversation, so I'd like to go back to that if we could.
Should there be limits to freedom of speech?
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
We're a civil liberties organization, so we believe in very broad protections for freedom of expression.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Should I be able to describe Black people using the N-word?
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
I don't think that you should describe Black people using the N-word.
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
The current law permits you to do that.
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
That is a statement of the law right now—
Liberal
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
I would never talk that way, and I don't think you would either.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
I certainly would not.
My question to you, though, is this. If we have very broad limits for what people can say or not say, do we not start to see that there becomes a risk to other people's safety and security?
For example, if somebody were to say that all Muslims are terrorists and we need to worry about them, all Jews support genocide so we should be worried about that, all Chinese people are complicit with the CCP or nonsense statements like that—which can start to undermine people's safety and security—do you think that we should limit that or do you think that's okay?
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
That's not limited, currently, under the law, even under hate speech law. The current hate speech law would not prohibit statements like that, as odious as they are.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
That's actually not true, though. That's simply untrue.
Litigation Director, Canadian Constitution Foundation
No, it's not untrue.
Liberal