Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

There are only two million out of 40 million Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, guys.

I'm letting you guys go well over time. It's really getting to be ridiculous. Come on, let's go.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Don't put it on me. She was answering—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I know. No, I'm not saying it. I'm just saying “you guys”. It's a generic term, Mr. Berthold.

I'm going to go to Ms. Gainey.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to Ms. Tait for being with us again this morning. I imagine this will be her last appearance at our committee.

Regarding the conversation around CBC/Radio‑Canada, I recall that in May, the Conservative Canadian Heritage critic was not able to answer a very simple question: whether Radio-Canada should stay.

I think her silence, or her inability to say “yes” to that question, really showed how little Radio-Canada is promoted or regarded as a very important organization in the Conservatives' opinion. That made me very uneasy.

I consider both organizations to be very important. I am thinking mainly of Radio-Canada, which is very important for francophone communities all over Canada and Quebec, obviously. It is an organization that we absolutely need.

On that point, is it true that the CBC and Radio-Canada share space in buildings all across Canada?

[Catherine Tait]

They share space in all the buildings and premises.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

So the employees of both broadcasters work together, in the same offices.

[Catherine Tait]

Exactly.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

If you get rid of an office, and here, I am thinking of the Toronto office, where the Conservative member has big plans to convert it to apartments, or who knows what, that would affect not just the CBC, it would affect Radio-Canada too, is that right?

[Catherine Tait]

Yes.

For example, Radio-Canada employees do in fact work in the Toronto building. So they would find themselves on the street.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I just wanted to put this question to you: in fact, can cuts be made to the CBC without hurting Radio-Canada?

[Catherine Tait]

No.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Right.

I think it is important to establish very clearly that the two public broadcasters cannot be separated. They work together. They do a lot to promote bilingualism all across Canada. I think it is extremely important to point out that the two public broadcasters work together, and it is not possible to have an agenda that involves taking the CBC's funding away without that having very negative consequences for Radio-Canada.

[Catherine Tait]

Exactly.

I can give you another example.

I am thinking of our Curio service, which is for teachers and schools all across Canada.

That service offers programs in French and English. This gives teachers all across Canada access to information in English and French for their students. It is actually a very important service.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I agree with you completely on that point.

Personally, as a mom, I believe it is very important to have programs in both languages. My children mainly speak English at home, but they watch a lot of television and listen to a lot of radio, programs about hockey teams in French, and so on. We often watch these programs in French, as a family, so we have more opportunities to learn French.

I imagine a lot of other families also appreciate this.

I'm going to return to the top here.

I just wanted to be reminded or get an answer to this: Is it true that every G7 country has a public broadcaster?

[Catherine Tait]

Yes, it is.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you.

I recall in one of your earlier visits you had some interesting data on the price per head, for example, or the per-citizen cost to run or deliver public broadcasting. Do you have those available with you? It seemed to me that we were in a position here in Canada to be delivering really extraordinary value for what it actually costs each citizen.

[Catherine Tait]

Yes, I think when we talk about $32 or $33 dollars per head compared to an average of $78.... Let's not forget you have German public broadcasting at $150 a head. Let's just remember also that Canada is a unique land mass, the second largest on the planet, and we're delivering across six time zones in English, French and eight indigenous languages. Not only are we delivering television, radio, digital streaming services and podcast services in all of those languages, but we're doing so over a vast territory, which means the value and the cost-benefit analysis is extraordinary.

What we deliver to Canadians is unique on the planet, and it is precious, because, if I can say it again, as I said in my opening remarks, we are the only national media service that connects all the dots: east, west, north, south, English, French and indigenous. It's an extraordinary privilege. It's an extraordinary treasure for this country.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I agree with you, and it's very disconcerting when we have people in elected office saying that trust is down, viewers are down and ad revenue is down, when you've shown us time and time again in this committee and through publicly available information that, in fact, trust is high. The viewers, listeners and readers are up. The digital ad revenue tripled, I believe you said. While other revenue is somewhat flat, it is dropping, as you've said, across media sectors and across the landscape. The performance is there, and it is also valued by Canadians.

I would also like to take this chance, while you're here with us again at committee, to thank you for your work and your service at CBC/Radio‑Canada and to wish you all the best in the next chapter. Thank you.

[Catherine Tait]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Gainey.

I now go to a third round, and we begin with the Conservatives and Mr. Waugh.

Kevin, you have five minutes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Tait, for appearing, as you said, for the fifth time in 12 months.

Two months ago, the CBC, your organization, said that ad revenues were down, and you've stated today that this is the case. Last year at this time your organization made the biggest staff reduction ever. Since then, and you've admitted this, $1.4 billion of public funding goes to the CBC. Now we know that ad revenue is down and that it makes up 30% of the commercial activities for the corporation, are you planning any staff reductions in the month ahead?

[Catherine Tait]

There are a couple of things I'd like to correct, Madam Chair, if I may.

Concerning the biggest job reduction ever, in the previous 10 years before I arrived at CBC there were over 1,000 jobs cut at CBC/Radio-Canada. The net loss of jobs in the six and a half years I have served is 90, because, by the way, we also create new jobs. We're talking here about 141 occupied positions that were lost. Let's deal with facts here.

In terms of TV ad revenue, I have said repeatedly—

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Yes, we know that.

[Catherine Tait]

So what is your question?