Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 142 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone of the rules. You will find the guidelines on the cards on your table, telling you where to place your devices so that we do not cause feedback for the interpreters.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I want to remind you of the following things.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For members participating in person, please raise your hand, or if you are participating by Zoom, there is a “raise hand” icon at the bottom of your computer screen that can let you put your hand up.

Also, I want to remind everyone that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I will give you a 30-second shout-out, a real shout-out. I will yell, “30 seconds”, and you will hear me because I can't count on you looking up to see me giving a time signal. Basically, you'll get warning when you have 30 seconds left to finish.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, October 29, the committee will resume its further consideration of the eighth report of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Today, regarding that report, I want to welcome our witness. There's only one witness today.

Welcome, Madame Marie-Philippe Bouchard, chief executive officer of TV5 Québec Canada.

You have five minutes, Ms. Bouchard, for your opening remarks. I will give you that 30-second yell when you have 30 seconds left. Then, of course, there will be a question-and-answer period in which people will ask you questions.

Begin, please, for five minutes, Ms. Bouchard.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard, Chief Executive Officer, TV5 Québec Canada, As an Individual]

Madam Chair, members of the committee, my name is Marie‑Philippe Bouchard, and I am the chief executive officer of TV5 Québec Canada, a Canadian independent not-for-profit broadcaster that operates two francophone channels, TV5 and Unis TV, under licence from the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission. These channels are available across Canada in cable companies' basic service packages, as well as on a streaming platform, TV5Unis. We are the audiovisual operator of the francophonie for Canada. Five years ago, we launched, with the support of our partner TV5MONDE, the global French-language streaming platform TV5MONDEplus, available in 200 countries and territories. Unis TV's mission is to forge ties between francophone minority communities and the regions of Quebec, and to reflect the richness and diversity of audiovisual creation from those communities.

As you may know, I was recently appointed by the Governor in Council to the position of president and CEO of CBC/Radio-Canada for a five-year term as of January 3, 2025. I am very honoured to have this opportunity to serve my fellow citizens as head of the public broadcaster.

For me, it will be like coming back home again, having spent almost 30 years at CBC/Radio‑Canada. I had the opportunity to work with great professionals for 12 years, in the law department and in regulatory affairs, in two corporate functions, supporting both English and French media. I had 10 years in French services news and current affairs, in both TV and radio, during which time I co-chaired and co-authored, with my colleague Esther Enkin of CBC News, an ambitious overhaul and enrichment of CBC/Radio‑Canada's journalistic standards and practices.

For the last six years of my time with the public broadcaster, I was part of the senior management team of French services, first as executive director of planning and then as general manager of digital services and of music. In each of those leadership roles, I co-piloted several collaborative transformation projects with my counterparts in English services.

I say this not to toot my own horn, although I am very proud of my service, but because I am aware that I was not a public figure up to now and that people may have a legitimate interest in knowing what experience I bring to the job of leading CBC/Radio‑Canada.

The organization has changed and has continued to transform since I left almost nine years ago. I know that. That's why I want to take the time to listen to employees, to stakeholders, and most importantly to Canadians, the users and the non-users of the various services CBC/Radio‑Canada provides.

Like any incoming CEO, I expect to spend my first weeks in the job listening and gathering and analyzing information so that the strategy we develop and the targets we set are meaningful to Canadians, are empowering to employees and are supportive of partners and stakeholders.

We are living in a fascinating time of changing media consumption needs and habits and evolving ways of producing and distributing content. These transformations and developments provide opportunities to improve service to citizens and support content creators. However, they are also fraught with risks and threats, particularly to our cultural sovereignty, to the plurality of voices and to the public's right to quality, verified, honest and relevant information, both at the local and regional levels and at the national and international levels.

That is why it is so important that the key players in our media environment, of which CBC/Radio-Canada is certainly a part, adapt and evolve to continue together to support the cultural and democratic life of the two official language communities and the indigenous communities that are present everywhere in Canada.

That is the challenge my team at TV5 Québec Canada meets head-on every day, and I will have the honour of continuing to do so with the CBC/Radio-Canada teams.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That was very efficient, Ms. Bouchard. You took less than the time that you were given. Thank you.

I want to start with the question-and-answer period. This is a six-minute round.

I'll begin with Mr. Kurek for the Conservatives for six minutes, please.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you for joining us today, Ms. Bouchard.

I've listened to the minister and Ms. Tait before this committee, and quite often the Liberals, and they seem to think that things are going well at the CBC. Sometimes they identify a few challenges, but I'm wondering if you would share the opinion that things are going well.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

As I stated in my opening remarks, I think everything is a challenge these days if you're a broadcaster. That's from experience.

I expect that at CBC/Radio-Canada, there are big challenges. I also think there have been big developments that have occurred over recent years, especially in the digital market, and that CBC and Radio-Canada have been leaders in this area. Certainly other broadcasters have benefited from what CBC/Radio-Canada has accomplished.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

There's a conversation around the approximately $1.4-billion taxpayer subsidy that goes to the public broadcaster. Through an access to information request it was revealed that Ms. Tait herself acknowledged that there was momentum growing in the campaign to defund the CBC. I certainly hear that from constituents. Is that something that you have heard?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I've not personally heard people asking me to defund the CBC or asking me what I thought of that issue.

As I said, I'm involved in a French broadcaster that's transnational. I have contacts with my colleagues from France Télévisions and the Belgians and the Swiss. I know there's debate in every democracy about the way forward for public broadcasters. I understand that this debate occurs in Canada, and I think it's a healthy debate. Going forward, there are lots of issues that can be debated on the value of a public broadcaster.

That's all I can say for now, because I don't have a whole lot of inside information, as you understand.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I'm sure that will change in about 40 days.

One of the primary items that has been brought forward to this committee, and certainly I've heard this in my role as the heritage critic, is that Canadians are extremely frustrated about the $18 million in bonuses that were paid out to executives, to managers and to out-of-scope employees at the CBC. To put that into context, when it comes to the bonuses specifically paid to executives and members of the executive team at CBC, it averaged about $71,000 per individual, which is more than the average Canadian makes, at a time when Canadians are struggling.

The current CEO, soon to be your predecessor, and the minister, refused to condemn the paying out of such substantial bonuses at a time when KPIs are generally not being met or are being adjusted so that they can be met. Canadians are sharing what I would suggest is outrage at millions of dollars being paid out to highly paid executives and the existence of a $497,000 club that was just revealed this week. Seven individuals at CBC make nearly half a million dollars a year.

Do you share the frustration that at a time when Canadians are struggling, those big bonuses are being paid out?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

There are a lot of things in that question.

Let me start by saying that I think it's healthy for any company, public or private—especially a public company—to review its salary practices over time and be able to say they are attached to what the market calls for.

Aside from that, I have no information from inside the company as to who is paid what. It's hard for me to be outraged without information.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

In light of this very public discourse—it's come before this committee—would you be willing to make a commitment today to stop awarding the types of bonuses we've seen over the last number of fiscal years that have caused such frustration for so many Canadians?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I understand the board of directors has called for a study that will be available to me and the board early in 2025. I expect that study will enlighten a lot of decisions, going forward. I would wait to see what the study says.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

One of the challenges with that study is this: The board of directors approved of Ms. Tait's performance, even though, I think, by virtually every objective measure, the last number of years have been a significant challenge for the CBC.

I have one final question in my last 30 or so seconds: As Ms. Tait transitions out and you transition in, would you be willing to state clearly that you do not support a large, taxpayer-funded severance package for the outgoing CEO?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

As I understand it, there is no such thing as an outgoing package for any CEO finishing their term. That's certainly not my understanding of my own conditions. There will be no exit package when I finish. Although I don't know the details, I don't expect that would be part of the situation at hand.

Second, I would have no influence on that decision, anyway. However, I don't think that's the situation at hand.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

That's very interesting, because, previously, when we've asked that question, there's been a refusal to talk about what that may or may not look like.

However, that's my six minutes, so thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's very good. You've gone a little over time, Mr. Kurek, but there you go. We'll allow for that.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Good job.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The next person up is Ms. Lattanzio, for the Liberals. You have six minutes.

Go ahead, please, Patricia.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witness for appearing today, as an individual, after a highly abnormal House of Commons motion passed by the opposition parties, which called for Madame Bouchard to appear.

Madame Bouchard, you were asked to appear before us today before you've even begun your appointment. As I understand it, that will be on January 3, 2025. You are now being asked to answer questions for a longer amount of time than most individual witnesses. From the last series of questions, it is clear the Conservatives want to entrap you into saying something about CBC/Radio-Canada even before you start your job as CEO.

For the record, Madam Chair, I'd like to state that some of us in this room believe it is ridiculous to ask someone to comment on a situation they haven't even had a chance to be briefed on or on a job they haven't even started working in.

I will ask questions, perhaps, on your past role.

If I may, I will continue in French.

I'm going to ask you a question about heading a broadcaster you know very well.

Can you provide us with details on your experience at the head of TV5 Québec Canada, as well as on the projects you were able to oversee as CEO?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I have been the head of TV5 Québec Canada for nine years. It's a non-profit corporation much smaller than CBC/Radio-Canada, which is where I worked previously.

One of the things I've learned in my management roles at this company is the extraordinary agility that can be developed under such conditions, as well as the benefits of having collaborative relationships with other public broadcasters. It's the very nature of TV5 to be in contact with public broadcasters in other countries, such as certain European countries, but also with Canadian public broadcasters.

This means I have relationships with Télé-Québec, the Société Radio-Canada and TFO, amongst others, but also with our minority francophone producer partners and francophone producers in Quebec. It's thanks to this network of collaborative relationships that a small organization can achieve such great results.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

We understand that TV5 is another public service medium. What are the principles of public broadcasting that differentiate TV5, the CBC and Radio-Canada from TVA or CTV?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

The first principle is universality.

We reach an audience by first seeking to be accessible to all and to meet their basic needs in relation to our mandate. We at TV5 have a specific mandate aimed at the francophonie, and we don't produce a daily newscast. However, we broadcast news from our European partners. Our work is therefore complementary to that of other broadcasters, like educational broadcasters such as Télé-Québec and TFO, and, of course, the national broadcaster CBC/Radio-Canada, particularly the Société Radio-Canada. We collaborate on improving services to audiences.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

In your opinion, Mrs. Bouchard, if public service media did not exist and if the viability of private media companies continued to decline, what risk would that pose?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

The risk is already there. There is a risk of a news desert in certain regions because the media's operating conditions, whether it be print, digital or broadcast media, are becoming increasingly difficult. Public service broadcasters provide basic coverage across the country. Frankly, it's vital. However, there is more to it than that. Many communities would not be served at all. I'm thinking in particular of francophone minority communities. We need broadcasters like Radio-Canada, TFO and TV5 to be able to offer news, documentaries, entertainment and children's programs that are in keeping with the rights of the citizens in those communities.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

There is a party that would like to get rid of CBC/Radio-Canada. Could that mean that thousands and thousands of jobs would be lost?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I don't know what you mean by “get rid of”.