Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Madame Bouchard.

I will now go to Niki Ashton for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

We know that defunding CBC/Radio-Canada will have dire consequences for francophones across this country, for northerners, for rural Canadians and for indigenous communities. CBC/Radio-Canada is often the only newscaster willing to tell these communities'—our communities'—stories from our perspectives.

We saw how the threat of Liberal cuts led to job losses for CBC/Radio-Canada, to the point that the workforce is closer to what it was during the Harper era. What would be the effects of more cuts and more defunding from either the Liberals or the Conservatives, who are both happy to do it? What would that do for these communities that depend on the CBC and Radio-Canada?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

Any cut in funding means a diminishment in service. There's a limit to efficiencies that you can generate. If there's a significant reduction in funding, there's going to have to be an impact. It's unavoidable, especially in the current market, with commercial revenue being so difficult and so challenged. Any reduction in budget is going to have a direct impact on jobs and on service.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I just wanted to end off by thanking Ms. Bouchard for coming to our committee, and even before her mandate begins.

As I said, it's very clear that our committee cares deeply about the future of the CBC. I think most Canadians want to see a stronger CBC, but a CBC that's also accountable, that doesn't dole out executive bonuses while cutting jobs, that invests in local and regional broadcasting in our communities and that looks at acting on investing in media deserts, like so many that are growing across our country. We hope that in your tenure you will turn a new page and bring—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

—these priorities to the fore, because ultimately, Canadians deserve a strong CBC and a strong Radio-Canada.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I now go to the Conservatives.

Mr. Kurek, I understand you're sharing with Mr. Godin. Is that correct?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You're sharing five minutes in total, please.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

It's interesting. You come with 29 years of experience at CBC. You've spent nine years in the private sector working for a not-for-profit, and now you're coming back, after having participated in this renewal mandate panel with the minister. You've mentioned a few things about that, but you said the report is going to the minister.

You've referenced a few times that you want to hear the Canadian story and you want to hear what Canadians have to say about the CBC, so I'm going to go back to the question of bonuses, because I think this is where many Canadians see a massive disconnect between $18 million paid out to executives and managers and the challenges that Canadians are facing; they are seeing just a massive disconnect that exists there.

I think my question.... I'd really like to nail this down, because it comes down to the issue of trust and making sure Canadians can, in fact, trust the leadership at the CBC, an organization they largely pay for one way or another through a $1.4-billion subsidy, and trust that it's not going to go to bonuses for executives in downtown office towers who have very little to do with telling the Canadian story.

Again, I want to nail this down. You talked about reviewing the bonus structure. You're hearing from elected members of Parliament—and this is not unique to Conservatives, although maybe our solutions are a little different—that we want to nail down specifically that bonuses need to be a thing of the past, certainly as they're structured today at the CBC.

Is that something you can commit to before this committee?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the invitation of the member to commit to something.

I will commit to studying the matter very seriously. I'm not tone deaf. I also need a plan in order to make sure that all employees are compensated fairly, that there is a system in place that's transparent, that is fair, that's not arbitrary, that doesn't change conditions of service or of employment in mid-course without explanation or without some system.

That's all I can commit to: to study the matter with the benefit of expert advice and with the counsel of the board of directors, in order to put something forward that is going to be trusted both inside and outside the corporation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

You now have two minutes, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mrs. Bouchard, you will understand that, as elected officials, it is rather hard for us to defend $18 million in bonuses when people are lining up at food banks. It's really hard to defend.

On another note, I'd like to hear your opinion on the following. There is disinformation saying that Radio-Canada would cease to exist if a Conservative government were ever to come to power. That is what the polls show, but we can't predict the future. We have heard members say that the service is lacking.

Don't you think that if you and your board of directors analyze the situation and develop a plan, Radio-Canada could provide a better forum for francophones across Canada?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

That's a pretty theoretical question.

I inherited a legislative mandate called the Broadcasting Act, now the Online Streaming Act. The mandate provides for a service that meets the needs of Canadians in both official languages and in indigenous languages.

Until Parliament changes that mandate, I can't really comment on what may or may not be possible.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You talk about the needs of Canadians, when English Canadians aren't tuning in because North America is an anglophone environment—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry; the time is up, Mr. Godin. That's what happens when you guys try to share time. Somebody always goes over your time.

Thank you. Now I go to the final question, and that's from the Liberals.

Ms. Lattanzio, you have five minutes, please.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Madame Bouchard, for being patient and answering all our questions today. We have a couple more.

With regard to the employees, how would you approach engaging with employees of CBC/Radio-Canada to make sure that their voices are being heard and that your decision-making style is reflecting and incorporating the best ideas from the whole organization?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I think I have a leg up with that task if I compare it with what was before some of my predecessors, because I already know the corporation and the structure and who does what. I don't necessarily know the people who work there everywhere today, but I plan to travel a fair amount and be available to talk to employees from all levels.

I obviously also want to talk to the senior executive team as well, and to hear from unions and hear ideas on all sorts of situations. This is a really incredible organization. There are so many bright people working there with an incredible depth of experience. I think we have a great benefit in listening to them.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

When you think about the challenges that are facing the news and the media sector today as a whole, what do you think about the CBC/Radio-Canada's place in the market? More specifically, what do you think of the idea of it being competitive with the others? Is that something that you should seek to do or not?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

If you're a reporter, your life is about breaking news. It's about breaking a story or breaking an investigation. There's natural competition in the work of a reporter, but that doesn't mean that we have to have businesses that are fighting one against the other. The businesses themselves can have an approach to the market that is a more beneficial to the entire community.

The nature of the competition doesn't have to be on a business side as much as it naturally is on the story side. When it is on the story side, that's when the public benefits the most, because then reporters are breaking stories. They are bringing new information to the front, and people are better informed.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

We all have observed that people get their information today differently than they have in the past. How do you think that this has affected the perception of traditional news and information sources?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

That's the stretch that we're in as media organizations.

There is still an audience for traditional news. They are very much attached to that service, and we can't just disregard their needs. At the same time, there are all sorts of people getting their news from Facebook and other social media. That's a big challenge, because we have to be where people consume their information.

That means that all media organizations—and that's true for TV5—have had to stretch their resources to maintain the service, because there is still an audience there, and it's loyal. Then we have to expand the service, and there's a limit to our resources, so we have to be very efficient. We have to find new ways. We have to think about how we can collaborate with each other, what infrastructure we can share and what resources we can share in order to meet all of those needs and to be relevant to all generations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 11 seconds.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

What factors do you think will play into whether people keep trusting CBC/Radio-Canada or not?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

The factors are its presence, its standards and its ability to live up to them, and its listening abilities. That is what I would like the corporation to be known for—not just that it has a microphone or an ability to publish, but that it has an ability and a talent for listening.