Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have very little time left. According to that logic, Mr. Robertson, it would mean that a group of sexual assault victims, for example, could ask for a list of names of people accused but acquitted of sex crimes. I'm trying to understand the logic of publishing the names to appease the Jewish community.

[Richard Robertson]

No, it's to enable the Jewish community to recover from the trauma of the largest genocide committed against a group in modern times. The clearance of the disinformation will help us to form a better understanding of our nation's complicity in the harbouring of Nazis after that.

I believe that it's something that all Canadians would benefit from. It will allow us to learn from our past, and it can be used to formulate guidelines for the release of information such as that related to the victims of historical sexual trauma or the victims of the atrocities committed against our first nations peoples.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

We're in agreement there, Mr. Robertson. However, what you're saying is that you're—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You've gone well over time. I've given you a lot of leeway.

Now I'm going to go to Ms. Ashton for two and a half minutes, please.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm astounded at what we're hearing in this committee today and frankly shocked that Liberal and Bloc members refuse to get to my motion directing the Minister of Heritage to call on Library and Archives Canada to release the names in the Deschênes report, a report that was put together in 1986 about—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

I just want to be clear that the motion was to resume debate and was not on the motion itself. It's important to make sure we are providing people with information and not misinformation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, indeed, Ms. Ashton, the motion was to resume debate and was not on the substance.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Let me be clear on my end that the Liberals and Bloc said “no“ to resuming debate that would allow for a vote on releasing the names in the Deschênes report. I think everybody can see through what's happening here.

What I find shocking, in the year 2024, when we are acknowledging 79 years since the end of the Second World War, a war in which tens of thousands of Canadians were killed by Nazis, a war in which six million Jews were exterminated by Nazis, where Poles, Roma, gays, the left and members of communities were targeted by Nazis and—

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

I'm just wondering about the relevance to our study and the witnesses here on freedom of expression.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's a reasonable question. What is the relevance?

Ms. Ashton, we voted not to reintroduce the debate, and you are reintroducing debate on this.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I'm using my time to speak to something. If, in a study on freedom of expression, I cannot express my views because Liberals are getting defensive about their position, we have a real problem on our hands. I would argue that the biggest problem is the way in which they blocked further debate and a vote on this critical motion.

Are we forgetting our history? What is critical here is that we recognize the responsibility we have as parliamentarians to uncloak and remove from under the veil of secrecy these Nazis who were protected years after Jews fleeing Europe were not allowed to enter Canada. Canada did not allow Jews to come to Canada to flee what was almost a sure death but instead allowed Nazis to come in.

We are hearing from a chorus of voices, including from B'nai Brith today, that it is time for Canada—for the Liberal government—to release the names identified in the Deschênes commission. It is absolutely time to do that.

I want to end off my time by sharing the words of a 96-year-old Holocaust survivor, Hedy Bohm, who said the following:

They let in those Nazis, even at a time when they refused Jewish survivors, but even right now to protect them? Wow. Whose interest is it? Justice doesn't seem to have much success.

Another survivor, Joseph Gottdenker, said, “It's hypocritical. It's not anything more than empty words of government officials who say, 'never again' in public speeches.”

I say never again. I commend the Conservatives for voting with us, and I'm appalled by the Liberals and the Bloc for blocking debate and a vote on releasing the names of the Nazis in the Deschênes commission. Shame....

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

Let's come to order, please.

Before I thank the witnesses and let them go, I have one question to ask as chair.

Mr. Robertson, you talked about recommendations to amend the Criminal Code or to expand the Criminal Code, and you talked about groups, flags and symbols that are hate motivated.

I'd like to ask you this. During the convoy that was in Ottawa a while ago, a year ago, there were swastika flags and Confederate flags being flown. What would your proposed recommendation in amending the Criminal Code do with this in future if this should happen?

[Richard Robertson]

The recommendation we put forward stems from a joint letter signed by my organization, the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs, and the Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center. It dealt solely with the emblems and the flags of listed terror entities. However, B'nai Brith would unequivocally support the construction of additional legislation that would prevent the display of Nazi iconography.

Just because the Nazi party is not a listed terror entity here in Canada, it does not mean that the flying of the Nazi swastika or the display of Nazi iconography should be permitted. That is, certainly, something that we believe would fall under the reasonable limitations of the freedom of expression, as enumerated in the charter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank Grand Chief Wastesicoot, and you, Mr. Robertson, for being here as witnesses, and for your testimony. It was helpful. Thank you very much.

Before I adjourn the meeting, I want to remind all members to submit recommendations to the clerk by the end of the day on Wednesday, December 4, with regard to our CBC study. Remember, we have to have that ready to take back to the House before December 17. You have until the end of the day, Wednesday, December 4, to submit any recommendations and any concepts you have for the report.

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.