Canadian Heritage Committee on May 31st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, Mr. Julian.

Continue, Ms. Thomas, but I will have to inform you that we must leave this room at 6:30 to allow for those rules to take place. They're parliamentary rules.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

To provide further clarity on what I'm speaking about right now, where there is a discrepancy between what the minister is saying and what Mr. Scott is saying, and to clarify why I find this so troubling, I'll read an excerpt from question period yesterday.

I got up in the House of Commons and I asked the Minister of Canadian Heritage to clarify for me whether or not user-generated content is in fact captured. Here's what I said, verbatim:

Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves in a bit of a dilemma here, because the heritage minister keeps telling Canadians that user-generated content, such as YouTube videos, is out, but Mr. Scott, the chair—

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. There are a few people who are talking in the room right now, which is quite distracting. Again, I would just ask that perhaps you could bring that order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We'll go to the room, please. Can somebody turn off that mike?

Will everyone in the room please keep your voices low so that you do not disturb Ms. Thomas?

Thank you.

Continue, Ms. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

In QP yesterday, I asked the following question:

Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves in a bit of a dilemma here, because the heritage minister keeps telling Canadians that user-generated content, such as YouTube videos, is out, but Mr. Scott, the chair of the CRTC, has said that actually user-generated content is in. Both of these men cannot be correct, so I would ask the minister to please tell the truth.

It's one or the other. It can't be both.

The minister is then invited to respond. Either he can say, “Ms. Thomas, I've been telling the truth the entire time, this is still the way it is, user-generated content is out,” or he can say, “Through you, Mr. Speaker, to the honourable member, upon further reflection and analysis, I've had an opportunity to look at this bill more closely”—perhaps even with Mr. Scott himself—“and I've come to the conclusion that, yes, actually, it is captured.” He had a choice in that moment to answer my question. I was simply asking him to tell the truth and I would accept it for what it was.

His response is enlightening, though, because instead of actually just telling me what is going on here, he avoided the question altogether. Here's how Mr. Rodriguez responded. He said:

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is very parliamentary, but I will still, out of respect for our democracy, answer the question.

It's interesting that when you ask for clarity the minister doesn't think that's parliamentary.

He goes on to say:

I am quite surprised—

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. There's a member across the way shouting at me, so perhaps you could put Mr. Bittle in his place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I will ask you, Mr. Bittle, to please lower your voice. Thank you very much.

Continue, Ms. Thomas.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I'll keep it a little quieter.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. Mr. Bittle right now just said that he will keep his heckles to a minimum. However, he is indicating that he will still continue, and I find that very inappropriate. I would invite you to address that as he continues to heckle me from across the way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Continue, please, Ms. Thomas. I have already spoken to Mr. Bittle about keeping his voice down.

Thank you.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, with all due respect, it is your responsibility to keep this committee room in order, and right now it is out of order because Mr. Bittle is choosing to function in a dysfunctional manner.

I would invite you to address that, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Bittle, will you please keep your voice down?

Thank you.

Continue, Ms. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Rodriguez responded to me then by saying—

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. Mr. Bittle is again heckling me from across the way. Perhaps you could address that again. I'm not sure if he understands your request.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Bittle, could you please keep your voice down?

Thank you very much.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Absolutely: quiet like a church mouse.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm afraid we're coming very close to the time when we are required to allow the interpretation staff to have 30 minutes of recess.

Continue, Ms. Thomas.

Ms. Thomas, I would like you, as you're speaking to the issue of order, to be very careful how you characterize the minister's response to your question about not telling “the truth”. That is sort of crossing a little close to the line.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, thank you for that added commentary. I do believe that the Speaker in the House yesterday was responsible for addressing that if he felt there was a need that it be addressed. I was simply quoting from the blues. Would you wish that I don't quote directly from the blues? Is that what you're advising me to do, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I am advising you that if you're going to quote something, then you may want to say, “this is a quote” and “open quotation” and “close quotation.” When you don't do that, it comes off as being your opinion.

Thank you.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, I would encourage you to go back and reflect upon the words that I spoke. I did say “quote”. It was clarified.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Continue please, Ms. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

It's 6:25 p.m. I may not be the swiftest, but it seems to me that we aren't going to have time to hear from the CRTC officials. They are ready and waiting.

I was wondering whether the committee members could find it in their heart to show some magnanimity and generosity, and let the officials in the room take their leave so they can go about their business, as we continue listening with keen interest to Ms. Thomas as she speaks to her motion.

It's a reasonable proposal. I'll leave it up to you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I would ask the clerk to let the CRTC know that the time is ending. You may want to decide if they return for another session.

Thank you.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

For the record, this is absolutely disgraceful that as a parliamentary committee, we were not able, because of Ms. Thomas' sabotage, to actually ask the CRTC questions to clarify their remarks. I find it deplorable that the Conservatives are wasting these resources rather than actually seeking answers from the CRTC. I think there are a lot of legitimate questions that need to be asked, and what Ms. Thomas has done is sabotage this committee's ability to actually ask those questions. It's unbelievable to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Ms. Thomas, please continue. I think we're coming close to the time that we must stop this meeting. It is now 6:26. We must stop at 6:30.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

To bring further clarity to the request that I am putting before this committee with regard to the revised charter statement that is being asked for, it is because there is a discrepancy between what the Minister of Canadian Heritage is saying and what the CRTC chair, Mr. Ian Scott, is saying concerning whether or not Bill C‑11 captures user-generated content.

To illustrate this further, I did ask the Minister of Canadian Heritage a very important question in the House of Commons yesterday, and I gave him the opportunity to clarify one way or the other. The first question that I asked the heritage minister in the House of Commons during question period yesterday was, and I quote:

Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves in a bit of a dilemma here, because the heritage minister keeps telling Canadians that user-generated content, such as YouTube videos, is out, but Mr. Scott, the chair of the CRTC, has said that actually user-generated content is in. Both of these men cannot be correct, so I would ask the minister to please tell the truth.

The Minister of Canadian Heritage then responded by saying this:

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is very parliamentary, but I will still, out of respect for our democracy, answer the question. I am quite surprised that the Conservatives quote the CRTC, because they keep attacking the CRTC like they keep attacking the CBC. Actually, there is no institution they do not attack. Now it is also the Bank of Canada, for some of them. The thing is that this is simply to ask streamers to contribute to our culture. That is it—

The members of this committee will observe that the minister did not answer my question. Instead, it was talked around, which baffles me because it really is a very simple question, and I believe it can be clarified very easily. The minister simply needs to communicate whether his intent is in fact to capture—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

With only the purest of good intentions, I want to let Ms. Thomas know that it is now half-past six and that, if she wants us to vote on her motion, the time is now or never. I assume that she would like the committee to vote on her motion, and now is the time to do so because we have to vacate the room.