Canadian Heritage Committee on June 1st, 2022

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

This has kind of caught me off guard, because, when I look at the witness list of the Liberals, us, the Bloc and the NDP, I find that 33 groups that requested to come from the NDP, the Bloc and the Liberals haven't been heard from yet.

When I look at that, I say they can't be happy. These are people who took time to write. They want to come and express their feelings on Bill C-11, and many are from the government side. I know the minister is coming tomorrow. The departmental officials have generously said that they will come tomorrow afternoon. Also, as you know, we've extended tomorrow's time from 3:30 until 6:30, and we only have four witnesses coming in the first hour tomorrow.

We have many people who have expressed a major concern. Some are supportive of this bill, and some are not supportive of this bill. There are some important groups. I look at APTN, and we haven't heard from them. They're an NDP witness. APTN is one of the reasons the CRTC.... I don't have to tell you, Madam Chair, that CBC, the public broadcaster, wasn't doing their job in representing the people of this country, and that's why APTN got started in Winnipeg and has spread. I give the CRTC credit that it is a mandatory station coast to coast now. I think we need to hear from them, because there are some issues with Bill C-11.

I just pick them out because it is Mr. Julian's wish to get everything together by four o'clock, eastern time, on Friday, and I'm surprised that he wouldn't want to hear from APTN. They're one of the major forces in this country. We don't have a lot of ethnic organizations that we've heard from. We've heard from one today, and that was quite shocking. They're not being recognized by Canadian television, whether it's Bell, Global or even the public broadcaster. They've been shut out.

We have lots to consider here, and I think APTN is one of the...and we're talking a traditional broadcaster here. That's where I come from. I really want to hear from them. I'd like to hear from National Community and Campus Radio. They're another organization, Madam Chair, that has been recommended here by the NDP. Obviously they don't seem to care if they come to committee or not—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

Mr. Waugh is making a number of comments that are absolutely inappropriate. We saw the Conservative filibuster all last night. We had witnesses having to wait for hours. The fact that we have already accepted that amendments can come in after the deadline and we just want to get things started I think should maybe mean that Conservatives can just allow the motion to go forward. They will have the opportunity to hear other witnesses, and they will have the opportunity to submit amendments after that date.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We have a hard stop at 7:30. We are back where we started. This is an attempt to never get to this decision. I would very quickly like to remind everybody that, when we passed a motion in good faith—it was unanimously passed by this committee—it read:

That the committee hear witnesses on the topic of C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts for one meeting lasting five hours during the week of May 23, 2022; that the committee continue to hear witnesses for an additional three meetings lasting five hours each during the week of May 30, 2022....

We are in that week right now. Again, this was a clear motion intended to define what we do, and we are now finding that this has all been a.... It was unanimously passed. We have never, at least while I've chaired this committee, had an exhaustive list of witnesses. When we're going to do work, we make a decision that we will let that work last a certain amount of time with a deadline, and that deadline is stuck to. If we didn't get all the witnesses in before that deadline, well, we didn't.

The clerk works very hard to call witnesses. Many witnesses could not come in during the motion that was moved and unanimously passed, so we have finished our witnesses. We have achieved 20 hours. We have achieved 19 hours this week. Twenty hours in total were asked for, and we will have an extra hour. This committee now has 20 hours. It has fulfilled the request unanimously agreed upon in the motion that I just read to you.

We now need to move forward, in the tradition of committees. There was no minimum attached to those 20 hours, I may add, so we are now moving to the next phase, which is to set a deadline for amendments. We have a hard stop, as I said, at 7:30, so we have a few more minutes for this motion on the floor, in keeping with our tradition and with what we said. I would like to ask us not to go over a motion already duly passed—unanimously passed by this committee.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Madam Chair, I think I had the floor, if you don't mind me saying that.

I haven't given it up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No, you haven't, but you may have to give it up, Mr. Waugh, because we have to leave. We do not have a room to meet in, and we do not have any staff to continue to support this meeting.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Well, I can stay. I'll be by myself, and I often talk—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

To yourself...?

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

—to myself, as you have probably noticed in the meetings.

[Voices]

Oh! Oh!

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Madam Chair, when I look at some of the witnesses.... For God's sake, Spotify is on everybody's phone, and we haven't heard from them. That is the new media. We heard from J.J., who talked about the new media today. I come from the traditional media. I went after Bell today. I'd like to talk to APTN. I have other issues with the radio and television industry.

The new media, Madam Chair, as we heard today from J.J. and others, need to be very front and centre, because we're going back 31 years on the Broadcasting Act. I know it needs to be modernized, but look at the legacy this committee will leave once this bill goes through the House. Is it going to be another 31 years, Madam Chair, before we do another? It's properly called the “streaming” act now, because it is going to change.

I think we need to talk about the new media as much as we talk about the traditional. I don't think we've had a chance, around the table, to discuss it. We heard from one guest today who opened a lot of eyes on the freedom of expression and doing it his way. Maybe I don't listen to him as much, but he obviously has a big following. Some of these YouTubers have bigger followings than Bell and Global. That's where this industry is going right now. That's where Bill C-11 needs to go. The act was changed from the Broadcasting Act to the streaming act for a very good reason. It's the 21st century. The Broadcasting Act is archaic. We need to move forward, and streaming is going to be—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

With due respect to my colleague, Mr. Waugh, whom I hold in high regard, Madam Chair, I would simply like to express my disappointment.

Before the parliamentary recess, we discussed the number of hours to be allocated for hearing witnesses. There was some disagreement. Some people wanted to move more quickly, while others wanted to take more time. We discussed this with the Conservatives and agreed to hold 20 hours of meetings with witnesses. That was the agreement, the compromise we reached.

Madam Chair, this is why I am disappointed. We often disagree with our Conservative colleagues, and sometimes agree with them, which is all the better. It is clear, however, that we we can usually rely on the Conservative' word when we reach an agreement with them. So it is disappointing to see what is happening now and to see that they are not following through on what they said.

On that note, Madam Chair, I move that the meeting be adjourned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

On the motion to adjourn, is there anyone opposing that motion?

If no, then it is time that we leave. Thank you very much, everyone.

We will continue the business meeting until we get a deadline for the amendments, so that will have to return tomorrow.

Thank you.