Canadian Heritage Committee on June 2nd, 2022

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I did. I challenged you. I was speaking when three members of this committee.... I had been about two to three minutes into my presentation on my subamendment when Mr. Julian, the member from the Bloc and the parliamentary secretary chose to interrupt with pseudo points of order. They in fact were just points of information, which you allowed. I had already started my explanation of the subamendment.

If you would look, and suspend in order to check with the clerk, I'm sure the clerk will confirm that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I will ask the clerk to confirm those minutes. I can tell you, I may have just had a blackout right there when you were speaking because I did not hear you begin debate. I had points of order coming from everyone at the moment before you began debate.

Clerk, may I get some clarity on this, please?

[Alexie Labelle]

Just to go back to the challenge of the chair's ruling, you had ruled the subamendment in order. The point of order challenging the decision made by Mr. Housefather was not done immediately after your ruling. It really is up to you to determine if the challenge can be accepted. Usually a challenge has to be made right when the ruling happens. In this case we had several points of order before Mr. Housefather's point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

But we did have points of order before Mr. Housefather. I think each point of order clarified themselves or checked themselves by saying that they were points of information. Thank you.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, Mr. Patzer.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think, for the benefit of the committee, I would like to just add in that Mr. Perkins had started his deliberations. There was some confusion because he had thought he had talked about a specific part of the subamendment that was different from what it was. We got that clarified. Then he started again into it. Then that's when the points of order happened. It was very clear that the debate had begun and then there were points of order. Then Mr. Housefather brought his point in.

Mr. Perkins, and again, I'm sitting right beside him so I heard him, he did in fact start debate on his subamendment. As he started—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I have a point of order.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

—I then turned to the clerk to make sure I could get on the speaking list as well. Mr. Perkins did, in fact, begin his debate on this subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I'm so sorry, Madam Chair. I know this is very trying. You're doing an incredible job under the circumstances. What I wanted to say was that when I heard the debate begin, I was the one who raised the point of order and asked for a copy to be sent to all members. I was unclear on what had been raised.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

As soon as I had received the document and had the opportunity to look at it, then points of order were being raised by other people—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, you're right.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

—but no debate had ensued on the amendment before I raised the issue that I believe this amendment is vague and uncertain, and therefore should not be receivable.

While I hate to say it would be a challenge to the chair, I didn't think you had ruled in the first place. I think either you should make a ruling or my challenge should be allowed. I don't think there was any opportunity to make it otherwise.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I agree with you, Mr. Housefather. When you were about to raise your challenge, we had three points of order, one after the other, and I did not hear Mr. Perkins begin debate.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

May I finish? I know you have a point of order, and I will come to you for your point of order—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

—but I would like to at least finish my sentences sometimes.

Thank you.

We're going to move forward with the challenge by Mr. Housefather.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

What about my point of order, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, go ahead. I don't know whose point of order it is.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm sorry. It's Rick Perkins.