Canadian Heritage Committee on July 27th, 2022

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

When we're doing this, is it a monthly program? I know it's all different because of those things but is it...? Let's talk about what it is.

Is it an hour once a month? Is it a day? Is it ongoing? How does this actually happen? What are the measurements of this training? Is it that they sit in the room and listen to everything, or are there some measurables to see if this training actually worked?

[David Branch]

We have an orientation week that we call at the start of the year, and that's where most of our education programs are introduced and administered.

It's a two-hour program. Each team has a designated support person, and it's through that mechanism, if there's a need for follow-up, that may occur in that fashion.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I just want to be sure.

I'm looking at the CHL. I am from a hockey town. I'll be honest; I'm right outside of the London Knights territory, so I am looking at the fact that we're bringing in usually 16 to 18-year-old boys. We're putting them into billet families, where their regular parent systems aren't there.

I know from reaching out—because, of course, this is really important—to some of the billet families with the OHL that they've never had follow up from the team to ensure that their curfews are being met. When they call the parents, there may have been.... With one parent I know, this kid actually had a sign-out. He was going to get the money. He was signed up with the NHL. Curfew didn't matter to him anymore.

The fact is that these are young men we're bringing in here, and young men still need to mature. We know that. I'm a mom. We know that children need to mature and that at the age of 17 and 18 there are going to be bad decisions.

What are you doing to ensure that we are creating good men from these programs?

[David Branch]

As a league, we named our very first director of player services last year. One of his core responsibilities is to make sure that all our programs are being delivered and delivered properly. There's no excuse for what you raised here in terms of a team not following up with the billets. Billets are our lifeline in looking after these young men. It's a very structured environment. It has to be for the reasons you've already described. We're managing it, and we're working it as best we can.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

I just now want to turn it back to Mr. Smith.

Mr. Smith, in your opening you mentioned that you have the support of Hockey Canada representatives and of associations across this country.

I'm just wondering, from the minor hockey leagues, how did you find out that they're actually supporting you? I just spoke to a coach who texted me saying, “Hey, I wasn't part of that survey, and I do not support what's happening with the Hockey Canada programs.”

I'm just asking, Mr. Smith, how do you know you have the support of minor hockey across Canada?

[Scott Smith]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I believe that in my opening statement I made reference to the support that I've received from our board of directors—the Hockey Canada board—as well as our 13 members, which are the governing bodies.

You may have spoken to an individual with a minor hockey association and received that feedback, but they would be part of the member.... I'm assuming they would be a member of the Ontario Hockey Federation, which is one of our 13 members.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I just think right here we see so many disconnects—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Karen, I don't think we have time for them to answer that question. You have eight seconds left.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

That's okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

After Karen, I think we have Tim Louis.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have five minutes.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Maybe I would start my questions with Mr. MacKenzie from the Canadian Hockey League.

Part of the problem that we've seen systemically is that players do not feel comfortable reporting off-ice misconduct, and the broad definition of that misconduct is stuff that we've talked about: hazing, bullying, harassment, sexual harassment, violence, sexual violence, discrimination and physical or sexual abuse.

Parents and Canadians are concerned that the three member leagues largely focus on the protection and the welfare of the CHL and the protection of the members' leagues and their reputational interests. We've read in reports that many of these policies that are put in place contain legal language, and it makes it very difficult to understand what types of behaviour would engage the policy and what recourse or outcomes exist if a breach occurs. In plain language, it's just too complicated.

A good policy has clear language that provides understanding, how an individual can engage and what happens next. How can Canadians hold you accountable? In what ways can you simplify the reporting of incidents?

[Dan MacKenzie]

Let me start with the first part of your question. I'm the father of a teenage boy, and we know teenage boys generally do not want to report bad behaviour. It's something we really push against in our league. It's a reality of them at that age.

We try to tackle it. One thing we've done is we implemented last year in each of the three leagues some new independent reporting mechanics to make it easier for players to report if they see something untoward. Again, it's not something that is a completely finished product in terms of its success level yet. We're pushing against that type of view. We're continually challenging ourselves on how we can get better there.

We would be open to suggestions from this committee and outside experts on that topic.

To answer the second part of the question, the types of elements you indicated with regard to how to make the programs and the reporting more successful are exactly the kinds of things that have come through the two independent reports we commissioned. As I said at the outset, the recommendations from those reports for each of our three leagues, based on the way they operate their programs, are going to be implemented for this coming season.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I appreciate that [Inaudible—Editor], but what exactly was the time?

[Dan MacKenzie]

It's something we're working towards, but we're obviously not quite there yet.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Then I'll segue to Mr. Smith from Hockey Canada.

It was mentioned previously that there were, I believe, 11 recommendations from the Henein Hutchison investigation. What was the date on which you were provided with those recommendations?

[Scott Smith]

I stand to be corrected, but I believe it was September 11 or September 12 of 2018. Sorry, it's September 14.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

How many of those have been fully implemented? I believe in your testimony you claimed that they've all been worked on. How many would you consider fully implemented?

[Scott Smith]

I would say that as we speak and with the new action plan, all 11 will be fully implemented.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Will be, okay, so when was the first recommendation fully implemented? When did you start taking action?

[Scott Smith]

As I said earlier, I'd be prepared to provide written documentation that you would give you the status report on each of those 11 recommendations, the first of which was focusing in on our code of conduct, which was done in the fall of 2018, before the first event took place after the incidents of the London gala.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Okay, thank you.

It just basically is about people asking how we can trust you to move forward if you haven't already implemented some of these programs. You have to know the problems before you fix them. It remains to be seen if that's understood.

Right now it appears that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds, Tim.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

—you either did not know about these practices of abuse or that you did know and didn't take action until you had no choice. How can Canadians hold you accountable? What metrics can we use so we can come back later and you can prove that you've earned that trust back?