Canadian Heritage Committee on July 27th, 2022

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay.

One of my main concerns, and if we sit down and really talk about this, we know something happened—

[Scott Smith]

If I could, sorry....

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Please go ahead.

[Scott Smith]

You asked if I had anything to do with that decision.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Yes.

[Scott Smith]

I was made aware of that decision, but I did not direct that decision. Excuse me, Mr. Chair, I wanted to clarify that. I apologize for interrupting.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

No, Mr. Smith, I really appreciate that. I want a good lead to this thing.

We knew that there was a problem four years ago. I guess, for me, the investigation ceased because the woman wouldn't come forward. I'm asking you, Mr. Smith: If we know that there are approximately eight perpetrators on a hockey team, eight people who are now, it seems to me, signed with the NHL or signed with professional hockey..... We weren't doing anything; it was just being swept under the rug.

I'm just wondering why Hockey Canada decided not to continue with the investigation to ensure.... Forget about the girl. This young woman, forget about that. What I'm looking at is what these young men did in the first place. I'm just wondering why Hockey Canada decided to cease this and not continue asking questions and holding these young gentlemen to account.

[Scott Smith]

Mr. Chair, I don't believe that we swept it under the rug. From the outset, we wanted to make sure that Henein Hutchison was retained to conduct a thorough—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Smith, I'm going to interrupt. I'm just wondering, if we're trying to change the culture, why we were not continuing to look at these perpetrators. Why did we cease looking at these perpetrators? If we're trying to change the culture of it, why, after the payout, did we just cease everything until it became public? Why did we not do anything? Why did you not continue to investigate, if you really wanted to change the culture of hockey?

[Scott Smith]

Mr. Chair, I believe on June 20 I stated openly that I would welcome the opportunity for the young woman to come forward and provide a statement. We've reopened the investigation, and we've given additional tools with respect to any refusal to participate in the investigation. We do believe that will allow Ms. Robitaille to take her investigation to the rightful conclusion, and we look forward to taking that forward to the adjudicative panel.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Smith, I applaud you for finally doing that, but, unfortunately, I have to say “finally”. That should have been done four years ago, and I think you know in your heart that it should have been done four years ago.

I want to switch over to the CHL.

Hockey Canada advised you immediately following the 2018 allegations that this had occurred. What did you do as an organization to see what was happening amongst your own teams to ensure that the players who would have participated in this were being looked at, or, because this was a Hockey Canada-sanctioned thing, did CHL have no role in this?

Can you just advise please?

[Dan MacKenzie]

I'm going to defer that question to Mr. Branch, who was the president of the Canadian Hockey League at the time.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Branch.

[David Branch]

I think in part you answered. Our position at that time.... Hockey Canada advised us—I want to say June 19—of the serious allegations. Days later, we were advised of the action steps that they were taking to investigate, to attempt to contact the family and support the young woman, the police investigation, one thing and another.

Clearly, what we recognized from the get-go is that the event and the national team programs fall under their jurisdiction.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay, fair enough.

Just with the CHL, can you share with me.... I know that there are many sexual assault centres in the city of London. I know that the London Abused Women's Centre works with the London Knights. Anova does as well.

I'm reaching out to you. Can you share with me what programs you have available so that we can actually talk about this toxic culture and the sexism that does occur, the frat house mentality that occurs when situations like this occur? What do you have in place to ensure there's proper education for these young men, that it's not just 30 minutes once a month and that they're actually living this as well?

[David Branch]

As touched on earlier, in 2015 we developed a program with the Ontario Coalition of Rape Crisis Centres to deal with that. We have respect in sport programs through Sheldon Kennedy which deal with such matters. We have harassment and abuse programs. It's a constant education.

We've developed a new app for our players to be able to anonymously report any issues or concerns relative to the question you just raised, along with others. We continue to challenge how we can best serve the needs of the players and help educate them because they are young people, as we all know.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

We'll have to leave it there. Thank you, Ms. Vecchio.

I see that Madam Chair has returned, so I'll turn the gavel back over to her.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, John.

Now we're moving to the five-minute rounds with Tim Louis for the Liberals.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I might pick up with Mr. Smith and where the previous questions were going.

You talked about training starting at around 2015, including through the Sexual Assault Support Centre of Waterloo Region. You're saying that this training is ongoing. You're referring to it as “constant education”.

Do you think the steps were taken regarding this 2018 incident in London? The perception of Canadians is that this incident has been swept under the rug. Do you think this training would be in line with where you are? Where is the breakdown in the policies? If these trainings were working, and how did we get to that point?

[Scott Smith]

Madam Chair, if there are questions specific to the training, I think the training that was referenced earlier was the CHL. Do I understand your comment?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Yes, you do, and I don't mind if they weigh in.

[Dan MacKenzie]

Sure.

This type of training happens at the regional league level. I know Mr. Branch has described their programs in the Ontario Hockey League. What I may do at this point is turn it over to Mr. Robison to discuss what they do in the Western Hockey League in this area. After that, I will turn it over to Mr. Courteau to talk about the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, if that's okay.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Just in the interest of time, from a blanket across the CHL, do you think that this training is working? We see incident after incident, and it doesn't seem to be effective. Canadians don't want to see that a box is being ticked off saying, “This is what we're doing.”

Do you see a reduction in incidents since this training has started?

[Dan MacKenzie]

I can talk to our approach. As I said before, we think the key spot for the training programs is at the team level, through the leagues at the team level, and with staff, team leadership and so on. As I indicated in my opening comments, in this area, you can never do too much. You can always do better. We know that. That's what we're striving to do.

We've had two independent reports conducted, which have given us a bit of a road map in this area. It wasn't so much around sexual misconduct. It was more about general off-ice misconduct.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

What happens to those reports? Would you be willing to share those with us? Would you be willing to share them in public to find out what can be done better?