Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number five of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Pursuant to the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, January 31, 2022, the committee is meeting on challenges related to the recovery of the arts, culture, heritage and sports sectors, which have been deeply impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021.

Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using Zoom. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from health authorities as well as the director of the Board of Internal Economy on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person are to maintain a two-metre physical distance and must wear a mask when circulating in the room. It is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times and, I'd like to add, including when speaking. One must use the hand sanitizer in the room.

As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting, and I want to thank everyone for your co-operation.

For those participating virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow. You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. If interpretation is lost, please let me know as soon as possible so we can ensure that it's reinstated. When speaking, please try not to do what I'm doing, which is speaking very quickly. Please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

This is a reminder that all comments by members should be addressed through the chair.

This meeting will, in fact, be cut short by 15 minutes, because the committee itself has business to do. I will ask those who are virtual, because I think all our witnesses are virtual, that, when the clerk asks you to leave, you quickly log out so we can get on with the business meeting.

Thank you very much, and so we begin.

I want to thank you all for taking the time to have input into this meeting. As you well know, it is a really important thing we hear from you and that we get your sense of what worked, what didn't work, what you now need and how to go on in the future to create resilient arts, culture and sports communities.

I'm going to begin in order. As an individual, we have Michael Rubinoff, producer, Canadian Commercial Theatre League.

Witnesses, you can only have one witness speak or, if you want to divide it up—it's up to you—per organization. You have five minutes to present. I will give you a one-minute heads-up so you can wind up, and then you can answer some of the things you didn't get to say in your statement when you're asked questions. Then we move to a question-and-answer section.

I will begin with Mr. Rubinoff for five minutes.

Please begin, Mr. Rubinoff.

[Michael Rubinoff, Producer, Canadian Commercial Theatre League, As an Individual]

Thank you for the invitation to appear before the committee, and gratitude to the clerk and her team for their guidance and support.

I'm a Toronto-based commercial theatre producer and representing the Canadian Commercial Theatre League, a relatively new organization.

The live commercial theatre industry in Canada is made up of independent producers, producing organizations, presenters and investors who generate and support the creation of new and existing theatrical work, and in the process employ thousands of artists, crew members, ushers and administrative staff and provide indirect employment to hotels, restaurants and local retail.

In addition, we support the not-for-profit sector by financially enhancing productions in these theatres and by commercially producing works started at not-for-profit theatres.

Private money is raised to support capitalization costs for commercial theatre and that money is injected into the economy. Our only sources of revenue to meet our weekly operating costs are from box-office sales, so the effects of COVID-19 on our industry have been catastrophic.

I had the idea to create a musical based on the extraordinary humanity, kindness and sense of community in Gander, Newfoundland and Labrador on 9/11 and the days following. I'm the originating producer of Come From Away, the most successful Canadian musical in history.

When COVID-19 gripped the world, five productions of the show in the U.S., U.K., Australia and Toronto shut down.

At home, our sector raised concerns that commercial theatre producers and presenters were not eligible for any emergency support under Canadian Heritage relief programs. With international precedent in hand, we had numerous meetings with MPs, ministers, staffers and bureaucrats, pleading our need for emergency relief, tax relief, and/or a government-backed insurance program due to the loss of business interruption coverage as a result of a pandemic.

We, like all other arts and culture organizations in this extraordinary moment, needed help.

The Americans passed the Save Our Stages Act, which established the shuttered venue operators grant. Come From Away's Broadway and North American touring productions each received $10 million U.S. to support reopening and associated pandemic expenses. The Australian production received over $1.6 million Australian from their restart investment to sustain and expand fund.

The London production of Come From Away benefited from tax relief measures implemented by the U.K. government, including a temporary reduction in the VAT. Commercial theatre producers and presenters were also eligible to apply for relief under the U.K. culture recovery fund.

Despite the lack of government support here at home, determined to reopen Come from Away in Toronto, $1.5 million in private money was committed, and with heightened risk, Mirvish Productions reopened the show. Reopening coincided with the Omicron variant. Two days after reopening, the Government of Ontario placed a 50% capacity limit on theatres, further eroding consumer confidence in attending theatre.

After pausing the show due to cast illness, and with no Canadian Heritage emergency supports available, the excruciating decision to permanently close Canada's most successful musical was announced on December 27, 2021.

What was lost? It was good-paying jobs for those on stage and off, millions in HST revenue, and hundreds of millions of dollars in economic impact to the Toronto economy.

Subsequent to the closing of the show, the current minister and his staff have been responsive and engaged in a number of robust conversations regarding support for the commercial theatre sector in Canada, and we are grateful for those ongoing conversations.

Come From Away continues to run on Broadway, in London's West End, on tour across North America, and recently wrapped up in Sydney and will reopen in additional Australian cities later this year.

Come from Away is but one example of a number of shows in Canada that commercial producers and presenters have closed, postponed or cancelled at significant cost.

We need a recognition of the economic impact of what we do, and we need the implementation of similar programs for our sector that have catapulted the for-profit film and television industry into one of the most successful in the world. We need to operate at 100% capacity or we further erode consumer confidence.

To ensure our sector's sustainable recovery and to succeed now and in the future, we need immediate access to emergency COVID-19 funding; a government-backed insurance program; tax-credit programs in similar scope to what has been provided to for-profit Canadian film and television productions; support for encouraging diverse voices in the Canadian commercial theatre sector; and implementation of recommendations proposed by the Creative Industries Coalition so that the skilled people who make theatre have financial security and wellness supports to continue in our industry.

I remain grateful for the support the Government of Canada has provided to the arts and culture community and hope our recommendations for our sector are worthy of your support and implementation so that we can receive the necessary aid to continue our contributions to country and community.

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rubinoff.

You were one minute under time, so that's really good. I'm pleased to hear that.

Now I'm going to go to Ms. Reeves, president and chief executive officer, for the Business/Arts community.

Ms. Reeves, go ahead, for five minutes, please.

[Aubrey Reeves, President and Chief Executive Officer, Business / Arts]

Thank you very much.

Greetings, Madam Chair and members of the committee. It's a pleasure to be here today.

I am the president and CEO of Business and Arts, a charitable organization that has existed for over 40 years with a national mandate to work in partnership with arts leaders, government and the business community to ensure a thriving arts and culture sector.

Throughout the pandemic, thousands of not-for-profit arts organizations, ranging from major cultural institutions to small community-led arts groups, have turned to Business and Arts to help navigate the waves of closures, restrictions and digital pivots, and now for planning for safe reopening and to chart a path to recovery.

Throughout the pandemic, B / A, in collaboration with the National Arts Centre, has been running a research project called the “Arts Response Tracking Survey”—ARTS for short—which I am going to tell you about today.

Since the spring of 2020, the study has been conducted quarterly by Nanos Research as a way to gauge Canadian culturegoers' comfort and perceptions around returning to indoor and outdoor arts and culture events, as well as museums and galleries. The data offers valuable insights to inform reopening procedures and programming models.

We conducted the latest survey in December 2021 and released the report on January 19. In it, we're happy to show that there has been a steady increase in the number of arts patrons returning to in-person events—from just 6% in May 2021 to 27% in December who have already returned to indoor events—and 35% who have returned to outdoor events. Meanwhile, 21% said they plan to return to indoor events immediately after cultural organizations are allowed to open.

However, there is still a significant portion of culturegoers who are hesitant to return, with 20% indicating that they intend to wait several months before returning. More troubling is the 24% who are so hesitant that they are simply not sure when they might return and the 9% who say they expect to never return to indoor arts and culture events. The data is similar is for museums and galleries, with 34% who have already returned, 21% who intend to return immediately and 15% who will wait several months. We still see, though, 24% who are not sure and 6% who say they intend to never return.

Not surprisingly, there are differences in the data when we look at demographics. The 18-to-34 age group is more likely to say they will return immediately, at 27%, compared to those in the 55-plus age group, with only 16% who intend to return immediately. With higher COVID risks in the older population group, we see 13% who say they intend to never return.

We are likely to see that the types of performances that attract the younger audiences—for instance, popular music concerts—will see stronger ticket sales than those that skew to older demographics, which will likely struggle for much longer to see their audiences return.

Fear is the biggest barrier to return, with 31% of respondents listing fear of being exposed to the virus as their top concern, and crowds or other people not respecting health measures as the second. Social distancing and masks continue to be top precautions. Culturegoers say they want to feel safe to return to indoor events. Arts and culture venues and facilities are doing an exceptional job of following all safety procedures, and many are exceeding mandated guidelines. Unfortunately, fear is a powerful deterrent that is not easily assuaged.

For two years, the public has been told to avoid social gatherings and rolling closures have mandated the shuttering of theatres, performance halls, cinemas, art galleries and museums. Thus, it's going to take a lot of time and effort to change public perception about the safety of these spaces.

With this data, what measures does the sector need to be viable during the reopening and recovery phase?

First, the ARTS data shows that we should anticipate a very slow and gradual return of audiences. It is reasonable to project a three- to five-year recovery timeline. Unfortunately, most arts organizations cannot break even with only a third of their audience intending to come back immediately. The sector needs support to offset the financial risks of getting back on stage or getting artwork into galleries when we know that revenues from ticket sales will be significantly smaller for the foreseeable future.

Second, the sector needs support to rebuild consumer confidence. We need dedicated funds for a sector-led marketing and public relations campaign that shifts the perceptions about the safety of our venues and facilities and also reinforces the many benefits of arts and culture for physical and mental health, as well as community well-being, inclusion and belonging.

Finally, as much as possible, the sector needs some semblance of predictability. I know that none of us, including the government, has a crystal ball to predict future waves and the possible needs for closure; however, we can't keep lurching from one emergency short-term funding program to another to fill the gaps. What is needed is a comprehensive policy framework and corresponding support programs that are in place throughout that three- to five-year timeline and can be relied on, whether or not there are future COVID waves or other types—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Please wrap up, Miss Reeves. Thank you.

[Aubrey Reeves]

—of crisis situations to affect the arts.

That's it. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

We now move on to the Canadian Live Music Association, with Erin Benjamin, president and chief executive officer, for five minutes, please.

[Erin Benjamin, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Live Music Association]

Thank you very much for inviting me to participate.

I'm Erin Benjamin, president and CEO of the Canadian Live Music Association.

Our membership includes both non-profit and for-profit entrepreneurs and organizations that together create the conditions for an artist to stand on a stage in front of an audience, venues, festivals and promoters, talent agents, service providers and many others whose work intersects directly with and supports live music performance.

I'd like to take my allotted time today to focus on one thing we consider to be key to the long-term success of the music industry, a simple shift that will see us through COVID recovery and beyond, that if implemented will increase impacts for government and artists substantially.

Canadian artists perform on all kinds of stages. Without what we call for-profit venues and festivals, however, most artists would have significantly fewer places to play. However, these businesses and other entrepreneurs in the live space are not currently eligible for Canadian Heritage programs as our non-profit members are. In other words, funding categorically excludes essential spaces serving Canadian artists, which today especially seems an obvious gap.

Coincidentally, it was one year ago today we launched a social media campaign with the rallying cry #ForTheLoveOfLive, to amplify the crushing impact of COVID on our entrepreneurs, artists, and supply chain and on our reputation as a competitive world-class live music market. That campaign now, with a reach of over 65 million, spoke directly to everyday Canadians, who were inspired to share stories and photos of how and why live music mattered to them. Government heard that united cry for help, diagnosed the indispensable nature of live music businesses and provided the historic $50 million in temporary funding we saw in last year's federal budget. We thank you for that. That support helped in two vital ways: it extended the lives of many businesses and it signalled to our community that the government believes that live music companies and entrepreneurs matter. I can't tell you how meaningful it was to see the words “live music venues” in a federal budget.

Like others in the broader sector who are already permanently at the heritage table, our members also undertake activities that are central to the development of Canadian artists, the promotion of their music, and the expansion of their audiences. They work to ensure that Canadians have access to a variety of professional artistic experiences and they are key generators of both jobs and economic impact. In fact, as one of the hardest-hit industries, the live music sector—all of us, formerly contributing upwards of $3 billion to GDP and creating 72,000 jobs—can't wait to unleash the full spectrum of music and entertainment activity we create so we can all begin to leverage the economic and social impacts that follow from Allison Russell to Elton John. Every city, town and village in Canada has some amount of local live music capacity, and therefore the ability to benefit from it. We'll draw people back into our downtowns; we'll enhance tourism as audiences reintegrate travel and hospitality through live music experiences, and we'll put more Canadian artists on stage than ever before. We know that the potential and power of live music can be fully realized through the modernization of programs and polices embracing live music entrepreneurs as stakeholders and harnessing their direct impact on an artist's ability to succeed.

COVID picked winners and losers. We know that. The live music industry of tomorrow is being built today on sheer determination and the understanding that artists need live music businesses not just to survive but to thrive. We've asked government, through our pre-budget submission, to provide a dedicated and permanent $50-million Canadian live music support fund, because if there's one thing we've learned above all else it's that live performance is fundamental to an artist's ability to build and sustain a career. Sadly, we don't have to look very far to see that today.

Canadian Heritage programs should change to reflect the way industry works so we can revitalize and rebuild the touring framework in this country, which we know our artists both need and deserve. That starts with all live music businesses, entrepreneurs and organizations being celebrated and supported as playing a vital role in the cultural, civic and economic lives of all Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I now move to Mirvish Productions Limited, with Kendra Bator, associate general manager, for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Kendra Bator, Associate General Manager, Mirvish Productions Ltd.]

Thank you.

My name is Kendra Bator, and I'm representing Mirvish Productions, Canada's largest commercial theatre producer.

Together with Michael Rubinoff and the Canadian Commercial Theatre League, we've submitted a brief on the state of the Canadian commercial theatre sector. You've heard from our partners in the labour and not-for-profit theatre sectors of the tremendous losses, challenges and risks, not only financial, suffered by the live arts industry since theatres were shut down in March 2020. We are requesting short- and long-term supports that will contribute to the rebuilding and sustained health of the commercial theatre sector, such as access to emergency funding; government-backed insurance schemes to replace the business interruption coverage we can no longer secure for pandemic-related losses; the development of tax credit programs to incentivize the development and production of live theatre within our borders; support for encouraging diverse voices in our sector; and implementation of the recommendations proposed by the Creative Industries Coalition, so that skilled people who make theatre have financial security.

We are grateful for the opportunity to participate in programs offered to all Canadian business owners and employers. CEWS, CERS and HASCAP loans have helped us keep our offices open. However, these supports do not assist with reopening our theatres.

Despite assertions and conversations with all levels of government that our sector makes significant contributions and acknowledgement that we have fallen through the cracks in the distribution of aid, these assertions have not been validated with actual financial aid. You can imagine our frustration and disenchantment when in one such conversation in which we asked why our colleagues in the not-for-profit sector benefit from emergency grants from the federal government, when the commercial theatre sector has received none for the same activities, we were told that the impression is that commercial theatre doesn't produce Canadian stories or contribute to Canadian culture.

I'm here today to tell you a Canadian story. Mirvish Productions owns and operates four theatres in Toronto, Canada, and produces and presents internationally celebrated works, sometimes written by Canadian playwrights, composers and lyricists, sometimes performed by Canadian actors and musicians, and always enjoyed by Canadian audiences and employing Canadian theatre practitioners and driving Canadian tourism.

Over the last 35 years Mirvish Productions has employed thousands of Canadian actors, stagehands, theatre practitioners and administrators, ushers and box-office personnel; invested millions of dollars in Canadian plays and musicals; and offered education programming to tens of thousands of students in the form of workshops, study guides, post-performance talkbacks and tours.

When Mirvish Productions is operating all four of its theatres, it welcomes more than 50,000 audience members per week. Ticket sales to productions at our theatres have generated tens of millions of dollars in tax revenue, and billions of dollars in economic activity in the neighbouring restaurants, hotels, retail and other sports and cultural institutions.

We accomplish this with private money and revenue from ticket sales. There's no contributed income in commercial theatre operations. If there is no box-office revenue, there is no income.

When Mirvish Productions closed its theatres, for the first time in the family's history of owning and operating theatres, in March 2020, the company's revenue was wiped out. It was not until after Come From Away closed in 2021 after a brief reopening that the outreach began to flow back to us. Since that time, we've had many conversations, and for the first time feel as though we're being heard and valued.

We now look to the upcoming production of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, the only production in Canada of this internationally acclaimed play. It will take $28 million to mount and another $850,000 a week to run. This is not a Canadian play, but it is a Canadian production. On a weekly basis it will employ 35 actors, 39 stagehands, seven stage managers, 35 front-of-house personnel, and 10 marketing, publicity and production personnel—all Canadian. It will welcome more than 12,000 audience members each week, 95% of whom will be Canadian, and more than 50% of whom will then spend money on Canadian restaurants and Canadian hotels and retail outlets. This production and the Canadian jobs, tourism, spending and tax revenue are imperiled by the heightened risks we now face.

We implore you to implement the recommendations in our briefing and we implore you to partner with us to craft a Canadian story about the rebuilding and brilliant reopening of the Canadian commercial theatre sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I would like to move now to the Professional Association of Canadian Theatres and Boomer Stacey, executive director, for five minutes please.

[Boomer Stacey, Executive Director, Professional Association of Canadian Theatres]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the committee for undertaking this necessary examination.

My name is Boomer, and I'm the executive director of the Professional Association of Canadian Theatres.

PACT is a collective voice of professional Canadian theatres representing over 160 professional theatre companies across the country, as well as supporting the needs of the English-speaking theatre community. Our sector is diverse, ranging from the largest performing arts organizations in Canada to small, independent theatre artists, from rural to urban, from festivals to theatre for young audiences, from culturally diverse to indigenous, all serving audiences in diverse communities from coast to coast to coast.

We are grateful for every dollar that has been made available to help our sector survive and the speed at which the government has responded. We would not still be standing without the support that we have received as a community. We ask you to continue the investment for our survival as we look towards recovery.

I know that you've heard on many occasions that our sector was the first to shut down and that we expect to be among the last to recover. You know we have faced unprecedented and extended closures of theatres and the cancellation of productions, including, of course, Come From Away, resulting in massive layoffs, under-employment, unemployment and a loss of skilled trades workers. We are aware of the ripple effect on restaurants, parking, hotels, etc., and the massive loss of regional revenues negatively affected by our closures.

You know that we've been through several cycles of lockdown, limited capacity and attempts to reopen. You might know that we've faced audience hesitancy in returning to venues and a lack of confidence in buying tickets. You may also know that we are experiencing severe burnout in trying to survive and a growing mental health crisis in our sector, so perhaps you understand a little of where we currently stand.

I want to dig just a little bit further into the nuances of some of our challenges to give you a deeper understanding of our road to recovery from our current state of survival.

We are not a light switch industry. From artistic development to performing on stage in front of an audience, it can take months to years to achieve. Even with a predetermined line-up of productions waiting to happen, from contracting, hiring and rehearsing to actual opening night takes at minimum a month, with additional time for marketing and box office. Lockdowns, local restrictions and capacity limits all affect when that clock starts in production. We don't have products sitting on a shelf ready to go.

One size does not fit all. Part of the strength of our sector is our diversity, but it also requires solutions and support to be equally diverse, flexible and sometimes tailored to meet a subsector's specific needs.

In order to get federal support out the door quickly, most of it has flown through Canadian Heritage and the Canada Council for the Arts. For companies not currently on CCA or Heritage funding, it has been difficult or impossible to access funds. Many of these companies represent traditionally underfunded, marginalized artists and companies. Additional funding is required in order to expand greater access to funds.

There are over 50 companies across the country that create work solely and specifically for young audiences. Touring into schools or schools travelling into venues is currently impossible. These companies already face a challenging financial model with less revenue realized through ticket sales and now face an even greater strain and a disconnect from their audiences.

Likewise, there is also a robust national contingent of festival or summer season theatres. The specific seasonality of their operations often makes funding metrics impossible to achieve.

Finally, there is no normal. The only certainty is continued uncertainty. Live streaming and digital opportunities have become part of our menu but cannot replace the hunger for live and in-person performances. Audience confidence in buying tickets in advance is at an all-time low, making traditional subscriptions and advance ticket sales less reliable. Last minute or walk-up sales affect company cash flow and forecasting, and create operational challenges.

Likewise, the nature of seasons is being redefined. Traditionally sales-rich holiday shows between November and January are being reconsidered based on the past two years' peak in virus waves and subsequent cancellations.

Full-season programming from September to June is also risky, so instead, shorter programming periods are being considered. This affects touring. There are fewer pre-sales opportunities and greater marketing challenges as well as the challenge of attracting a workforce back with shorter term contracts.

This is a very short overview of just some of our current and ongoing challenges, and while we may look forward to recovery, we're still very much mired in survival mode.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Stacey, you have 15 seconds if you want to wrap up.

[Boomer Stacey]

Thanks. I'm wrapped.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I'll go to the final witness, and that is Sophie Prégent, who is president of the Union des Artistes.

[Sophie Prégent, President, Union des Artistes]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My name is Sophie Prégent, and I have been president of the Union des Artistes, the UDA, since 2013. The UDA represents 13,000 artists: dancers, lyric singers, pop singers, actors and comedians to name only a few. We represent professional artists who work in French in Quebec and the rest of Canada, as well as all artists who work in languages other than English.

I want to thank you for your attention to the situation of artists.

First, I will outline the current situation of the artists we represent. That situation has been broadly reported in our media, but here are a few telling numbers.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

I apologize for interrupting Ms. Prégent's remarks, but her camera doesn't appear to be working.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry. Perhaps we can look after that.

She's there now.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you.

[Sophie Prégent]

I was discussing the situation of the artists the UDA represents. Between 2019, that is, before the pandemic, and 2021, the incomes of performing artists fell by 46%. I repeat: 46%. Since performing artists earn $16,000 to $25,000 a year, you can imagine what a 46% decline in income may represent.

In January 2021, we conducted a study on the mental health of our members to get a clear picture of the situation, and 61% of respondents said they had lost all interest in their artistic practice. It's very hard to maintain personal convictions when the telephone stops ringing and you aren't practising your art.

In addition, 35% of respondents had sought help because they were psychologically distressed. Sadly, 15% of them had contemplated suicide during that time and 47%, nearly half of all respondents, had considered or were still considering leaving their artistic careers in the long term. The impact on mental health is critical and, in some instances, unfortunately irreversible.

What scares us even more at the UDA is that the worst is likely yet to come. Artists were entitled to the Canada emergency response benefit, the CERB, the Canada recovery benefit, or CRB, and the Canada worker lockdown benefit, the CWLB, but we know that all those benefits will terminate at the end of February. What will happen to those artists who still need aid?

In our view, the worst effects are just starting to be felt. For example, we at the Union des Artistes see that people are making withdrawals from their RRSPs, not to deposit the money in the bank but merely to pay the rent and buy food for their families.

All of which thus brings us to potential recovery measures.

First, to ensure the transition to recovery, we believe that a widespread promotional campaign will have to be organized to bring audiences back to see their artists in poetry, dance, opera, theatre and music. Canadians have learned to entertain themselves differently in the past two years. While good habits are unfortunately lost all too quickly, the cultural sector was setting traffic and attendance records before the pandemic.

The real recovery will be made possible by direct transitional assistance to artists and by the cultural institutions and production and broadcasting organizations supporting our members' artistic works. Together we must take back our culture.

Second, recognition of the work that artists do is an inevitable prerequisite for a robust and sustainable recovery. By recognition I mean the creation of some form of employment insurance available to self-employed workers and tailored to their situation. It is essential that we create a social protection plan for artists and ensure that atypical and contractual workers are entitled to an adequate social safety net…

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one minute.

[Sophie Prégent]

…when a crisis such as this occurs or when economic challenges resulting in income losses arise.

In conclusion, I believe we have barely started to understand what the worst long-term consequences of the pandemic will be for artists and arts and culture. I know I have enormous concerns for the future of our culture.

Too many people are saying they intend to change careers. However, it is they, the creators, who form the core of our culture, who are the soul of our society. Without creators, there is no culture. Without creators, there are no future artists.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Ms. Prégent.

Those are startling statistics. Thank you.

Now we're going to move to the question and answer session. Members of different parties will ask questions. The amount of time allocated is for the question and the answer. I wanted to remind everyone of that. I will continue to give you a heads-up when you have 30 seconds or one minute left.

I'm going to begin, but before I do, there is a member of Parliament in the room. He is the member of Parliament for Spadina-Fort York. He is not a member of the committee. I wanted everyone to be aware that he is in the room.

I will go to the question and answer session. The first is John Nater from the Conservative Party for six minutes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses, as well.

This has been, once again, a very informative panel. I look forward to the conversation that we're going to have today.

I wanted to begin with Mr. Rubinoff and Ms. Bator.

I think we all appreciate the somewhat cruel irony that the most successful Canadian musical in history is being shown for four productions internationally and none of those locations are in Canada. I think we appreciate that cruel, unfortunate reality that we see with such a wonderful production. I remember promising my wonderful wife, after the 2019 election, that I would take her to see Come from Away. I may have to find an alternate location. Hopefully, we can do that once again in Toronto in the somewhat near future.

I wanted to start with the capital costs. We're talking about commercial theatre and the capital costs that you must raise to begin the production before a single actor steps onto the stage—those upfront costs. I want to get your thoughts on the hesitancy, the stigma and the uncertainty that we have going forward to be able to raise those private funds in order to put the productions on in the first place.

What is the reaction you're getting? What challenge are you facing when you have that uncertainty in raising the capital?

[Kendra Bator]

Commercial theatre is always a risky endeavour because it is all private capital and because you do rely solely on box-office income to not only meet your weekly needs, but to return that initial capital. We're facing increasing risk because of rolling shutdowns that are happening in other markets because of COVID-19 illness. They're having to shut down for a week or more at a time and then reopen. We're also seeing increased risk because of the lack of insurance, which we've mentioned in our briefings and in our conversation today, where we can no longer get coverage for business interruption due to pandemic-related loss.

We're also seeing increased risk because our vendors and other people we work with are also feeling pressure and experiencing increased risk. We're being asked for guarantees of months at a time of weekly rentals from our vendors who are having to purchase equipment in order to fulfill our needs.

There's more and more risk, but fewer and fewer assurances that we'll be able to continue operating. If you add capacity restrictions on top of that, the entire endeavour really does just crumble because we need the opportunity to operate at a hundred per cent to be able to meet our weekly needs.