Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Prégent.

Now I go to Mr. Julian for the New Democratic Party for two and a half minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Prégent, you spoke very eloquently about how artists have been affected by everything we've been through over the past two years, and the importance of introducing a policy on employment insurance.

Could we do more to establish a solid footing for artists from one end of Canada to the other?

I'm talking about a basic income program, as well as other programs that exist internationally.

Could we learn from programs in other countries how to provide a proper standard of living for artists, who contribute so much to society?

[Sophie Prégent]

Absolutely.

France, for example, introduced a program specifically for performing arts “intermittents,” as they are called there, and it has possibilities. In France, everyone knows that an actor can't be on stage 340 or 365 days a year. There are times when artists may not be working, but spending time on further training, creating, writing, and so on.

So there are models we could draw upon or adopt. Thank you for pointing this out. We are not opposed to the idea. There is employment insurance, to be sure, but there are other options. The important thing is to make sure that the measure is permanent.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to go to Mr. Stacey and Ms. Bator.

Do you see international examples we can use here at home that would establish a real solid base for our Canadian artists and for our Canadian theatres?

[Boomer Stacey]

Yes, I know Ireland has just passed something recent in support of artists. I think Aubrey has probably greater info on that than I do. But I know in Europe there are a number of countries that do support their artists with a guaranteed income program.

[Aubrey Reeves]

If I can jump in on the Ireland example, they just announced a few months ago they will be providing $28 million to artists and entertainers hurt by the pandemic through a basic income program. Artists are receiving approximately $400 a week for three years and also venues are receiving $10,000 in grants. The mission is really the first of its kind for entertainers in that country to support jobs and businesses in the night-time economy, which is how they define it, but also to support new and emerging acts. It is a basic income program. It is a small pilot, about 2,000 to 2,500 artists are participating, but it's a really good pilot for us to look to to maybe base some other programs on in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I would like to move to the next questioner for the Conservatives, Ms. Leslyn Lewis, for five minutes.

Ms. Lewis.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Stacey, you had spoken about the difference between the treatment of larger providers and smaller providers. I believe I heard you say in your testimony that larger providers could access funds more easily than under-serviced and marginalized communities. I wanted you to just expand on that and highlight some of the changes that you think the government could make to reduce this disparity.

[Boomer Stacey]

It's not necessarily based on size, but a lot of it is based on historical practice. So companies that have historically benefited from funding from the Canada Council, as long as they're in good standing, they continue to benefit from that. There's not a huge new influx of money coming into the Canada Council, so in order for them to expand, they need to take money away from someone else. We don't want to see that happen, so it takes new money to ensure that new companies are benefiting from the same access to funds. We're seeing a huge increase in the prominence of culturally diverse IBPOC companies, queer companies, companies that are artists who traditionally have been marginalized and are having a challenge accessing funds on a sustainable level.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Prégent.

Ms. Prégent, can you tell me whether independent workers in your sector were able to have ready access to the funds established to deal with the COVID‑19 pandemic?

[Sophie Prégent]

Are you talking about the most recent measure, the Canada worker lockdown benefit?

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Yes, exactly.

[Sophie Prégent]

I believe the benefit was up to $300 per week, which of course was not enough. It's better than nothing, however. I'd like to make something clear: I'm not here to complain. All of these support measures helped artists in need. What's clear, though, is that they weren't enough. Artists had to wait to see if we were officially in lockdown, which was indeed the case in Quebec. It therefore took more time for artists to gain access to this support. The circumstances were difficult.

But when we did get access to these benefits, they were thankfully retroactive. We received money, but it took a while. The measure was in fact introduced at the last minute. Added to that was the fact that it took a number of weeks to actually receive it. Things were really difficult.

For artists, the fifth wave was one too many. It was the worst in terms of the response and the psychological distress. We had already got through four previous waves.

To answer your question, I would say that the measure was useful, although not perfect, and that it took a while to implement it.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you very much.

My next question is for Mr. Stacey.

What capacity limits would you say theatres need in order to operate at a sustainable level?

[Boomer Stacey]

It's a very hard question. We've had many members who have been allowed to open at 100% capacity, but because of audience lack of confidence in going, they haven't been able to achieve 100% capacity. I think people would like to see the opportunity to open at 100%, but make their own decisions as to what capacity of tickets they're going to sell.

I know some of our members have experimented with offering the same show one night at 50% capacity and the next night at 100%. If you're a little bit leery of going with a full house, you buy a ticket to the half-capacity showing.

People would love the opportunity to make that decision for themselves and have access to being able to sell at 100%.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you.

Is there a distinction between the larger theatres and the smaller theatres and the impact levels on these different venues during COVID?

[Boomer Stacey]

Yes.

Again, I was trying to speak to diversity in my introduction. Every company has a different issue. If you're a rural company and you're trying to attract audience members from literally a several hours drive away, you're facing different capacity issues than if you're in Toronto and competing against 40 or 50 other entertainment options at the same time.

We're facing a variety of issues related to capacity and to impacts across the country.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Bator.

I would like to hear a little bit more about how to instill confidence in the sector. You mentioned that it will cost $28 million to produce Harry Potter.

What level of security measures do you feel need to be put in place in order for your industry to once again embark on such a risk?

[Kendra Bator]

We'll need partnership from all levels of government. This will be about having sustained supports in place. We need to know that if we have to close, someone will be there to hold our hand to help us get to when we can reopen.

We need messaging. We need all levels of government to tell people that it's important to go to the theatre, that it contributes to our lives and that it's safe to go to the theatre. I think it's the soft power of government saying how important it is and the actual, tangible measures.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Bator. We need to wrap up.

For five minutes, we have Mr. Chris Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, everyone, for being here.

I would like to build on your last answer, Ms. Bator and Mr. Rubinoff. You spoke about tax credits and potential insurance. Are there any other measures—if you'd like expand on it—that you'd like to see to assist the sector?

I will hear Mr. Rubinoff first.

[Michael Rubinoff]

Those are two key ones.

Obviously, who knows where things are going to go with this pandemic? Not having access to emergency funding.... It's a whole program, so if we don't have those supports and don't have access to emergency funding, it's very difficult to move forward. What you saw in the American context was that they received substantial aid through the American program. They don't have insurance supports and they could weather through.

You do give me an opportunity to talk about what we put in the submission. We've also seen in our industry what the government did for film and television to provide funding for more diversity supports and inclusion supports in the industry. We would like to see that in our sector as well. Using this moment as we look forward, those supports would be great to champion a program much like in film and television, where we can go out and do internships and apprenticeships and pay people to come into our industry so that we can tell the diverse stories of Canada. That would be very helpful in this moment.

[Kendra Bator]

I echo what Michael says. Yes, that's what we're looking for. It's really the combination of things, and when you don't have the emergency funding there, the lack of insurance is exacerbating the situation we're in.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you so much.

Perhaps this is best suited to Mr. Rubinoff. We've talked about the benefits of the commercial theatre sector to the economy in terms of money back. I know that Ms. Bator spoke about that.

Could you talk about the overall economic impact of the commercial theatre sector on the economy, just to put it in perspective as we study this?

[Michael Rubinoff]

Yes. It's so significant as a beacon of economic activity. One, it's bringing together people in different communities and cities across the country to experience something that you can't experience in your home or on your device.

It's such a unique art form, and it's one we need. The economic impact is so significant. We had theatres open for a couple of weeks, and if you walked around the downtown core in Toronto you saw thousands of people going into the theatres and then thousands of people going to use public transit, going to the restaurants, going to shop at retail and going to get takeout. That's really tangible.

It put money in the hands of actors and the artists. From the mental health perspective—and I know Mr. Stacey has spoken about it eloquently—that really made a difference. They were waiting for 20 months to get back on the stage, so we were supporting them in the commercial theatre through our collective bargained agreements. We pay the highest rates in the commercial theatre. That was really supportive, and it has an impact on the economy and an impact on allowing artists to live in cities that are becoming more expensive places to live.

Finally, in terms of looking at economic development, we can't take wellness out of it. People want to come back together. People want to have these unique experiences to perceive a story of hope and optimism, a story on what that means and a reflection on who we are as a community and as a people. I think that on that wellness and giving people that outlet and opportunity, we cannot negate the cost of doing that.