Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Can you then do a roll call?

[The Clerk]

Absolutely.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

This means that because CPC-2 did not carry, we can move to NDP-2.

That is Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, if you're recognizing me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I am. You don't have to speak, Mr. Julian, but if you wish to, you can.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Oh, Madam Chair, I never give up an opportunity to speak, but I won't speak for 16 hours, which is what I did to one of the amendments in the softwood lumber sellout. I will keep my remarks brief.

We had a number of witnesses, including APTN and Dadan Sivunivut, who indicated the importance of this measure. This amendment broadens the scope of the definition of news content to recognize that indigenous storytelling is a traditional means by which indigenous news outlets may communicate news stories to indigenous communities. The amendment ensures that the act recognizes the particular cultural approach of indigenous peoples to news and information content, which could encompass storytelling techniques.

Now, Madam Chair, you will recall that last Friday we adopted NDP-1, which provided for a definition in the bill itself. The two amendments, NDP-1 and NDP-2, should really be seen as working together to ensure that indigenous peoples are recognized by Bill C-18, and that there is potential for negotiation for indigenous news outlets.

Hopefully, given that we adopted NDP-1, we will adopt the second part of that tandem, which is NDP-2.

I move that amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I ask the committee, shall amendment NDP-2 carry?

[The Clerk]

Ms. Gladu's hand is up on the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, go ahead, Marilyn.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I absolutely support the addition of indigenous content to this bill. I just have two questions.

Is there a definition for “indigenous storytelling”? That is question one.

The second question is, does it include...? Let's say an elder meets the criterion of having one journalist, or meets the definition of who's included in the bill. If they do Facebook Live or broadcasts like that, are these able to be monetized? That would be my question.

Those questions would be for Mr. Julian, because he brought the amendment.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll defer to the officials on this. As Ms. Gladu is aware, the scope around traditional indigenous storytelling is something that is very well known. This fits within the framework of the bill, and that's why the amendment works with the definitions we adopted last Friday.

I will defer to the officials, who have been very eloquent, in this regard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I don't know who is going to answer.

Go ahead.

[Thomas Owen Ripley, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Cultural Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's Mr. Ripley.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Welcome, Mr. Ripley.

[Thomas Owen Ripley]

Thank you. I apologize for being late this morning.

Thank you for the question.

There is no definition for “indigenous storytelling”, which, I understand, is being proposed. It's a recognition that indigenous communities sometimes have a different way of communicating or sharing information. The way this would be understood, presumably, is through discussions between the CRTC and indigenous communities on understanding the scope of how they see storytelling.

With respect to your second question, MP Gladu, to the extent that an eligible news business was making content available through something like Facebook Live, it could be part of the bargaining, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Did that answer your question, Ms. Gladu?

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Is there someone else?

[The Clerk]

Mrs. Thomas has her hand up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I was hoping for further elaboration on the last point you made, Mr. Ripley, with regard to Facebook or YouTube. I just want to ensure I understand you correctly.

If stories were posted, could they be captured under this legislation?

[Thomas Owen Ripley]

Madam Chair, if I may, there is a series of steps you would have to work through.

The first is whether the platform is a digital news intermediary and designated under the act, pursuant to the criteria in clause 6. Then, as per the conversation you had with my colleague earlier, “making available” news content includes what's in the audiovisual format. Yes, it could include that type of activity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there anyone else's hand up, Aimée?

[The Clerk]

Mrs. Thomas has her hand up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I will call the question, then.