Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 6th, 2022

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Madam Chair, just further to Mr. Housefather's adding an hour on Friday, let's suppose that on Friday we don't get it done in the three-hour session. Is there any way that we can look to add a meeting on Monday or an additional meeting on Tuesday to get this bill finished?

On this side, we would like to see it done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Julian suggested this at the last meeting before this one, and I asked the clerk to look at that. I think I will let her answer as to what her response was.

Madam Clerk.

[The Clerk]

My initial response would be that my understanding was that we were doing one hour with Justice Cromwell, which would leave one hour for clause-by-clause. I extended the invitation to Justice Cromwell for the first hour, but it's completely discretionary, based on his availability and whether or not you are so inclined. That could give you the possibility to extend further if there are services available. I did not make the request for additional services because I was waiting for the official “go” to request them.

If I have the go to request extra services, I most certainly will.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That depends on the committee making a decision on this.

Thank you, Mr. Waugh.

Does the committee have any say on this? Does the committee feel that we need to expand? At the rate we're going, I don't even think an extra hour is going to make a difference. We seem to be taking a long time.

Yes, Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Point of order, Madam Chair.

Can we vote on amendment NDP‑21? We will discuss the schedule afterwards. We were about to vote on Mr. Julian's amendment. I think we could finish the vote before we move on to another topic of discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. I agree with you. It is procedure, yes. We should do that.

Is there any opposition to NDP-21?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

It would seem that NDP-21 carries unanimously.

We should go to—

[The Clerk]

Ms. Gladu has her hand up, Dr. Fry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, Ms. Gladu. We have now voted, so is it about the time allocation thing?

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Yes, that's always important, but it's with respect to Mr. Housefather's suggestion of having an extra hour on Friday. I have a very important day on Saturday, but this bill is very important as well. I agree that we should have an extra hour on Friday. We should look into having the extra hour after Judge Cromwell and see what our other options are so that we can get the bill finished.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I appreciate the spirit of getting this done, but I think the motion was that we need to finish this before we hear from Justice Cromwell.

I'm in favour of the extra hour. I agree with what Mr. Julian said. Votes can be grouped together. We can do this on division. It doesn't mean that Conservatives support anything if we agree on division. We seem to be burning a lot of time with things. I think we can finish it in three hours. We're fine with adding an additional meeting to ensure that this is done, but I think that has to be discussed amongst the whips.

However, the motion before this committee, which the committee agreed on, is that we can't hear from Justice Cromwell unless we're finished with this bill, and I want to hear from Justice Cromwell. I think everyone does.

I really think we can get there. I think we're over 70% of the way through the amendments. If we have a little bit more support.... I don't want to say “support”—not support—but if we do it the way Mr. Julian suggests, we can get through this. Again, we're willing to do the extra work, but we need to finish it before we hear from Justice Cromwell. That's what the will of the committee was.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You are correct in terms of the committee motion, Mr. Bittle. It was to have—after we had finished this clause-by-clause—Justice Cromwell as a witness.

Secondly, I think that we tried “on division” earlier in this meeting and it was rejected, so we're going to ask the question again: Is everyone prepared to look at “on division” as a means of voting instead of going through the read votes?

Go ahead, Kevin.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Madam Chair, I'll just throw this out there.

Yes to three hours on Friday, and is there any way that we could then maybe squeeze in a Monday committee meeting for Bill C-18 if possible, even if it's an hour—if we see on Friday that we're close but not there—or up to two hours on a Monday?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Champoux is next.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I would add to Mr. Waugh's proposal that Justice Cromwell be invited to appear in the second part of the meeting on Tuesday. So on Monday we would have at least an extra hour, and we would also have the first hour of Tuesday's meeting if by any chance we had not been able to finish on Friday. That would surprise me enormously, given the goodwill of all the members of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We still have not answered the question about “on division”.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Housefather has his hand up, Dr. Fry, and I would just add the caution that we would need to confirm the availability of resources to add an extra meeting on Monday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Absolutely. What the committee wishes may not always be so depending on resources. We'd have to let the clerk go back and find out if any of the options that were offered are going to be available in terms of resources.

Now we have Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My understanding from the clerk was that we could extend the meetings by one hour on Friday and Tuesday. Is that right?

[The Clerk]

You probably would have a better chance of extending your meetings on Friday for certain, and Tuesday potentially, than adding an additional meeting. It is always more challenging to move things around, but it's—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

One thing I might suggest is that I also believe that with goodwill—and I think there is goodwill here—we'll finish with three hours on Friday.

I would then, as a backup, suggest that we see if we can extend the Tuesday meeting by an hour if we're not finished on Friday. The first hour would be for clause-by-clause and then we'd hear from Judge Cromwell in the last two hours. We probably won't go two full hours with Judge Cromwell, but I'd like to have him for more than an hour, if we could. That would be my suggestion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather, for the suggestion.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

[Inaudible—Editor] clarification?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I was suggesting that we go the three hours on Friday. I think we'll finish, but if we didn't and we can't get another meeting, which I think the clerk thinks will be difficult, I suggest we add an extra hour the next Tuesday. In the first hour, we'll try to finish the clause-by-clause if we haven't finished by Friday, and then we'll invite Judge Cromwell for the last two hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather. I think that was particularly clear.

We have a decision that we can have an extra hour on Friday, and we're not sure about the extra hour on Tuesday. The clerk will find out and come back to us on Friday and let us know whether that is possible.