Canadian Heritage Committee on March 9th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

This meeting is called to order.

Welcome to meeting number 68 of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Given what we decided on June 23 with the House of Commons order, this meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. While public authorities and the Board of Internal Economy no longer require mask-wearing, it is highly recommended, because we still have—as the World Health Organization says—a pandemic of COVID-19 and its variants.

I want to take this opportunity to remind all participants that at this meeting, it is not permitted to take screenshots or photos of your testimony or your questions. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website, so you can go there to see whatever went on.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by this committee on Tuesday, September 20, 2022, the committee is meeting to continue its study on safe sport in Canada.

I want to welcome the witnesses. We have Janine Beckie, Quinn, Sophie Schmidt and Christine Sinclair, who are all player representatives of the Canadian national soccer team.

Now we will begin the official opening remarks from the witnesses.

All four of you have a total of 10 minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

A point of order, Madam Chair.

I understand that our assistants who are following the meeting via Zoom do not have any sound.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

They're having sound problems. We'll let the clerk find out what's going on. The broadcast equipment might have been interfering.

Can you hear now?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Apparently not.

The problem is not with the interpreters. It is the Zoom application that is not allowing access to the sound in the room.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I will speak and you can see if you're getting me translated.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It is not an interpretation problem. I can hear the interpreters well.

It is the people using Zoom who do not have any sound right now.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Madam Chair, my staffer on Zoom is saying she can hear the English, so perhaps it is just the French on Zoom that's not working.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Can we suspend for a couple of minutes while we find out what's going on?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Indeed, our assistants can follow the meeting on ParlVU. I think the issue is too important to suspend the meeting. Since we have sound in the room, it should be okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I got on a plane this morning, so I can hardly hear anybody because my ears are still popping. I can't hear what anybody is saying in English or French. I have to put my earpiece in.

We will pause for a couple of minutes while we find out what's going on.

All right. I am told that we are meeting all of our requirements for translation, etc., and the sound in the room is fine, so I don't know.

Are you okay?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Yes, of course. Today we have some very high-profile witnesses and I do not want to see a repeat of what happened on Monday. So we can continue. Our team will watch the meeting on ParlVU.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. I will tell everyone on Zoom to look at ParlVU.

We will begin now with the opening remarks.

You have 10 minutes. You can make a decision about who is going to speak for how long.

I know some chairs like to hold up a piece of paper, but if you're reading notes, you don't look up. I'm just going tell you “30 seconds” when you have 30 seconds to go. If you don't get to finish all the things you want to say, you'll have ample opportunity during the questions section, when you can elaborate on the things you want to say.

Welcome again, and thank you very much.

Ms. Sinclair, please begin.

[Christine Sinclair, Player Representative, Canadian National Soccer Team, Canadian Players Association]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair and honourable committee members. Thank you for having us here today.

There is no greater honour for athletes than stepping on the competitive stage and representing our country. The four of us have had that privilege for many years, and we would all tell you that these have been some of the greatest moments of our lives. However, they have not come without frustration and sacrifice.

Our sport is having a critical moment in Canada. Last year, the men participated in their first World Cup in 36 years, and we will host the next men’s World Cup in 2026. The women’s team also won gold in Tokyo in 2021. The success of the national teams is inspiring the entire country, and the future should be brighter than ever.

However, as the popularity, interest in, and growth of the women’s game sweep the globe, our most painstaking battle has been with our own federation while trying to obtain fair and equitable treatment in the way we are supported and paid.

For over a decade, members of the women’s national team have asked Canada Soccer for detailed disclosure of its finances and for the compensation provided to the men’s national team. Some information has been provided, but it has never been enough to allow the women’s team to understand the breakdown of revenue and amounts allocated to both national team programs. Canada Soccer’s usual response is to refer us to the annual reports and financial statements on its website. As a result, for many years we were forced to negotiate in the dark.

Canada Soccer’s approach has reflected a culture of secrecy and obstruction. As players, we were constantly told that our compensation—or lack of it—was all Canada Soccer could afford. In 2017, the women’s team and Canada Soccer finally reached an agreement that would pay the players a small salary. Once again, we were told this was all it could afford to pay the players. Therefore, imagine our shock when we found out, in 2021—the year we won Olympic gold—that the men’s national team players were earning more than five times what a women’s national team player was earning.

On a personal note, I have never been more insulted than I was by Canada Soccer’s own president, Nick Bontis, when we met with him last year to discuss our concerns. I was tasked with outlining our compensation ask on behalf of the women’s national team. The president of Canada Soccer listened to what I had to say. He then, later in the meeting, referred back to it as, “What was it Christine was bitching about?” To me, this spoke volumes about the lack of respect Canada Soccer has for its women’s national team.

As a team, we do not trust Canada Soccer to be open and honest as we continue to negotiate not only for fair, equitable compensation and treatment but also for the future of our program.

[Janine Beckie, Player Representative, Canadian National Soccer Team, Canadian Players Association]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair and honourable committee members.

In 2012 our women's national team stunned the Olympic podium when they won bronze in London after finishing in last place in the 2011 Women's World Cup.

In 2015 Canada was host to the Women's World Cup, which put a spotlight on soccer in our country in a way we had never seen before. Victor Montagliani called it “a watershed moment for Canadian soccer”. In its 2015 annual report, Canada Soccer boasted a 26% increase in total revenues, including a 56% increase in sponsorship revenue.

In 2016 we were back on the podium, with bronze around our necks again, moving our team into FIFA's top five ranking for the first time ever. This time Canada Soccer saw a 15% increase in sponsorship revenue. Soccer in Canada was big, and anybody who was paying attention knew it.

Only two short years later, in 2018, we were one year away from the next Women's World Cup. This was a huge year for Canada Soccer. In June 2018 Canada won the bid to be one of the host countries for the 2026 FIFA Men's World Cup.

As players, we all know what hosting a World Cup means and the unmatched potential for upside, yet, despite this amazing trajectory, it has been widely reported that Canada Soccer entered into a very long-term agreement with a private company called Canadian Soccer Business, or CSB. We understand that this agreement gives CSB sponsorship and broadcast rights for both the men's and women's national teams, potentially until 2037. In return, Canada Soccer receives an agreed-upon fixed amount of money from CSB each year.

This means that no matter how well the CSB does in selling the national teams' sponsorship and broadcast rights, no matter how much money it makes, Canada Soccer receives those same agreed-upon amounts. This was our own association blatantly betting against the success of its national teams.

We don't know why Canada Soccer made this deal. Either it had no idea it was a terrible deal for Canada Soccer or it knew it was a terrible deal and did it anyway. Either option is unthinkable.

In August 2021 we became world champions, Olympic champions and gold medallists. Then our men's team qualified for the World Cup for the first time in 36 years. Sponsors, it seemed, came knocking in droves—Gatorade, CIBC, Carlsberg, Degree, TikTok and the list goes on and on. This was Canada Soccer's moment.

Imagine our complete shock, then, at learning last year that Canada Soccer would see none of the financial upside of this excitement and engagement, that it had given it away to a third party that runs and funds a domestic men's league, and that our success is the engine driving a business that is not promoting the women's game in our country.

This would be tough news for anyone to swallow in any circumstance, but it was impossible for us not to take action when we learned what Canada Soccer's financial constraints meant. Here we are, less than six months from our Women's World Cup, and we will not even be given the resources to properly prepare for our World Cup and our Olympic qualifications.

[Quinn, Player Representative, Canadian National Soccer Team, Canadian Players Association]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair and honourable committee members.

The resource constraints that Canada Soccer has created for itself through the CSB deal have forced Canada Soccer to make choices about where it allocates funding. Those choices invariably favour the men's program. Canada Soccer's long-standing narrative has been that we should be grateful for what we receive. This has even translated to our operational budget. We are asked to simply make do with less.

We have now had to cut not only training days in camp but also full camp windows, which gives us fewer of the crucial opportunities we need as players to play together as a team leading into major international tournaments. We have had to cut the number of players at camp as well. That means not having enough players to run drills on the field. We've had to bring in staff members to just have enough bodies to run a full field scrimmage. We have had to cut the number of staff members at each camp. That compromises our training, our rehabilitation and our preparation. It means that we as players sometimes have to make choices about which medical treatments to receive when staff physiotherapists are stretched.

In 2021, the year our team won Olympic gold, Canada Soccer spent twice as much on the men's national team as it did on the women's national team, despite their not having a World Cup or Olympic Games. In fact, according to Canada Soccer's audited financial statements, it has spent more on the men's national team than the women's national team every year since at least 2019. The disparity between the treatment of the men's and women's national teams is glaring. It shows that Canada Soccer views the women's program to be of secondary importance to the men's program.

This disparity is even more shocking when you account for the fact that approximately half of the women's national team funding comes from Own the Podium. Own the Podium is a performance-based investment that provides funding to Canadian programs in order to deliver Olympic medals. This is money coming into Canada Soccer that is earmarked specifically for the women's team. We have been told as players that it is essential to achieve a top-three finish in the Olympic Games in order to keep enough funding to be able to run a program. Both coaches and players have been fearful that without repeated Olympic success, our program would no longer have enough resources to function.

Despite all of our success for over more than a decade, we have had to fight for every incremental step in playing conditions, treatment and compensation. Both the men's and women's national teams are committed to continuing to move the sport forward and achieving equity. However, in order for this to be possible, immediate steps must be taken to address the equality of treatment between our programs.

[Sophie Schmidt, Player Representative, Canadian National Soccer Team, Canadian Players Association]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair and honourable committee members.

In Canada we have the third-largest player pool in the world. Globally, the women's sports market and the women's player pool is growing faster than the men's market. Attendance and viewership are up. The commercial value of the women's soccer game is expected to increase sixfold in the next decade.

Canada Soccer is supposed to be responsible for the development of women's soccer in Canada. However, Canada Soccer treats the women's game as an afterthought. It has failed to put in place any structure, resources or plan for the development and future success of the women's game in this country. Instead, it has diverted significant resources to men's soccer in Canada, including through its support of the Canadian Premier League.

The division of resources deeply impacts the support and future development of players in our youth program. Our staff have been forced to cut youth programming, leaving our youth national team with only one camp for this calendar year, which puts the future of the women's program in jeopardy. Fewer camps mean less opportunity, which means we're less competitive on the global stage. The system for developing players is broken, and women are making the national team by chance, not by design. What kind of message are we sending to the youth who dream of representing Canada?

Our passion and commitment have always strived to grow the game of soccer at home and to be a world leader in women's sport. As a team, we have looked to inspire Canadians as we strive to be the best in the world with values of respect in the pursuit of being world-class humans and players, and a top contending soccer nation.

Currently, Canada Soccer does not reflect similar values on how it is planning, growing and governing. The opportunity for Canada to lead the way is here and now, but it can happen only with real change and the right leadership.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thanks very much to the witnesses.

We're going to go into a question session. The first round is going to be six minutes, but those six minutes are for the question and the answer. Everyone should try to be as concise as they possibly can, so we can get in as many rounds as we can.

We'll begin with the Conservatives and Kevin Waugh, for six minutes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to Sophie, Janine, Christine and Quinn for coming. I'm sorry you have to be here. This should not happen in our country.

Your team has made Canada proud for over a decade. I'm appalled when I read about pay equity, but more so about your taking part in the tournament in Florida, where you mentioned that you didn't have enough players to practise. You didn't have enough physiotherapists, doctors and whatever, or team support.

You know, Christine, you have been the face of soccer in this country for over a decade. I'm going to start with you, because I'm embarrassed by Canada Soccer. You have been the face of soccer in this country, as I mentioned, so how do you feel about coming today to talk about this?

[Christine Sinclair]

Obviously, this is not ideally where we players would like to be. We feel much more comfortable being on the soccer field, training and preparing for games. However, our team and the players on the team have a motto that when we leave the national team, the sport will be in a better place than it was when we found it. Sitting here, there's no greater honour than to try to make significant changes for young kids in Canada. We are here to do right by them.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you for your beliefs in the tournament. It's hard as an athlete to stand up and push back, because your name is in the media. You're being looked upon by Canada Soccer as disturbers of the game, maybe.

I wore the colour today that you wore in the United States, because I'm proud of you. I have a granddaughter who's playing soccer because of you. I go to the soccer facility in Saskatoon on Saturdays, and it's packed. It's because of you. It's not because of the men's team. It's not because of Canada Soccer. It's because of the Canadian women's team and what you have accomplished in the last 10-plus years.

Canada Soccer, knowing you're coming today, does a news release on the CBA. Do you have any thoughts on that today? How disgusting is it, as you sit in front of the heritage committee, that Canada Soccer would be so bullish and give a CBA contract to you?

Sophie or Janine?

[Janine Beckie]

First of all, thank you for having us here today. It's an honour to be in front of all of you.

We feel quite disrespected by the way it went about its business this afternoon, but we also don't feel that it's the right place to stoop down to that level, if you will. We're here to speak about this issue. We believe that what was talked about in good faith bargaining between our players association and the association should have stayed between the players association and the Canadian soccer association.

We feel quite disrespected that this wasn't respected, that it didn't stay behind closed doors before that agreement was actually signed. There were terms, numbers and pieces that were in its statement today that have not even been communicated to us. That was a bit of a shock to us, but again, we're excited to be here to talk about this with all of you.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I'm seeing a trend in this country with Sport Canada. They don't follow up. We saw that with Hockey Canada.

Has the heritage department ever reached out to any of the team members? Has the sport minister talked about this chaos that has gone on far too long?

I saw Sport Canada do nothing with Hockey Canada from 2018 on, and I'm wondering right now if Sport Canada or even the sport minister reached out to any one of the team members to deal with this catastrophic issue that we're facing here today.

[Quinn]

Yes, the sport minister reached out through avenues to us. There has been movement from the minister's office.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

What did she offer, or what did the department offer?

[Quinn]

They were looking to us for guidance on what would be helpful through their department.