Canadian Heritage Committee on March 9th, 2023

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

What would be helpful? Equity. What the hell? That's a pretty simple ask, isn't it? It's 2023. You've made the sport what it is in this country. In the next three years, soccer will be the number one sport in this country. Christine, you've been around a long time. What is wrong?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

You've been around very, very....

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

You've represented us very well over the years. What are we going to do? This is not good on the world stage. You're preparing for New Zealand and Australia. You don't have any money after that. There's no money in the budget for you to prepare to defend your gold medal from Tokyo the year after in Paris.

[Christine Sinclair]

I'm not sure, honestly, where we go from here. I think there are a few simple things that need to be addressed with the CSA in terms of its transparency and finances. That's a big one for us as the women's national team. We have no idea where the money is coming from or where it's going, and the difference between the men's and the women's national team program....

For us, pay equity is just a little piece of the puzzle. It's about equal treatment. It's about equal opportunities and equal resources. Honestly, until that happens, we're going to be at a stalemate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Kevin. Your time is up.

I'm going to go to the Liberal Party and Lisa Hepfner.

Ms. Hepfner, you have six minutes.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to express what an honour it is to have these four elite athletes here. They have represented our country so well on the international stage and have made us all so proud. It's particularly appropriate that they're here the day after International Women's Day, to fight for gender equality and equal pay.

You've explained a bit about the situation you're facing, but I'm wondering if we can dig into why your team makes so much less than the men's team. Does it cost less to train women players? Does it take fewer resources to get girls up to an elite level? Is there something rational there that we can point to?

Any of you can answer that.

[Janine Beckie]

Is there anything rational? I would answer no. Does any of that make sense? No. We play with the same size ball. We kick at the same size goal. We play on the same size field. We play for the same number of minutes. We are doing the same work as our male counterparts. In any other avenue of work in the world, you sit at the same desk as your male counterpart, you're doing the same job as your male counterparts here.... That's essentially what we're asking for, like Christine pointed out: equal opportunity and equal resource. That's not just for us; it's also for our youth teams.

Like we said in our opening statement, our youth teams have been cut down to one camp this year. As Sophie pointed out, girls are making the women's national team by chance, because they have talent, because they're talented enough, not because we have systems in place to put them in a position to make the national team.

I would also say that there's a very large discrepancy within FIFA and how FIFA treats the men's and women's games, but we expect to be part of an association that, if it values equity, will be able to make up for the FIFA discrepancy. That means, again, paying us the same as the men make, despite the number of games they play a year, despite anything like that.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Ms. Beckie, you spoke about how you felt when the team's funding was cut after you won world gold medals and Olympic gold medals.

What does this do to your team's mental health?

[Janine Beckie]

We have an incredibly strong group of people behind the scenes. We have a lot of teammates who have put so much time and effort into what we're doing and how we're sitting here today. It's not just the four of us; it's 25 to 30 people behind the scenes. This is one of those things that have genuinely just made us stronger. We have been successful, not because of our federation but actually in spite of our federation for so many years. Like we said in our opening statement, we have been successful with less and have been expected to do more with less.

I think we have just got to a point where we are so sick and tired of having to fight the same battle, have the same conversations, and scratch and claw for transparency when that should just be expected and given when asked for.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That was an excellent answer, and I thank you for that.

With the last few minutes I have, I would like to move in a bit of a different direction.

I was looking at the case of Bob Birarda, who I'm sure you know was coach of the Vancouver Whitecaps from 1998 to 2006. There were several allegations against him, so he left that team and went on to another team. It was just last year, I think, that he pleaded guilty to many years of offences and was sentenced.

Could any of you describe whether this is an isolated incident or whether it points to any bigger problems within Canada Soccer when it comes to women feeling safe on the teams?

[Christine Sinclair]

I can try to answer that.

I don't know all the details, but I don't think it's just a Canada Soccer problem. I don't think it's just a sport in Canada problem. We all play professionally down in the U.S., and the same things are happening there. I'm sure the same things are happening in every office building in Canada and the U.S. I can't sit here and say it's just a Canada Soccer or Sport Canada problem.

You're a female. You've lived your whole life and know what women go through. It's completely unacceptable.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Would anybody else like to weigh in on this? How can we make our sports safer for young people? How we can protect our children who are playing?

[Quinn]

We have to have systems in place so that there is a safe sport system. We're seeing the independent safe sport mechanism roll out. I think with that we need to have organizations on board, through grassroots up to the level we play at.

Through our careers, we have understood the value of education from the perspective of protecting ourselves and understanding what abuse and maltreatment look like. It's no different from our level down to the grassroots.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Those are my questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now we go to the third questioner. It's the Bloc Québécois and it's Sébastien Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, members of the Canadian women's soccer team.

Ms. Sinclair, it is truly an honour to meet you. You are perhaps the greatest athlete in Canada, in all sports, and probably all genders, even surpassing Mikaël Kingsbury, some would argue. I think that could be a topic for discussion on open-line sports shows. I acknowledge your tremendous achievements and the impact you have had on the growth of soccer in Canada, especially women's soccer. I think we owe you a debt of gratitude. I salute your courage and that of the entire team.

It is shocking to see that change in our society is still marked by a culture of silence, especially in the sports world. By speaking up and given the unity of your team, you are models for all other sports federations. Your public statements, especially those with the American women, have been striking and produce social change. You can count on me and, I believe, on all my colleagues to back you up on your demands.

I would like you to expand on your thoughts on what has been presented since last week and up until today. What is your top demand? Is it a work contract? Is it the ability to negotiate a collective agreement? What is the first thing to be addressed in negotiations?

You talked about training time and conditions. How can we improve conditions for Canada's women soccer players?

[Quinn]

There are a lot of objectives. Like Janine mentioned earlier, we're not just talking about pay equity. We're talking about equitable allocation of resources as well.

With our youth programming, it's not just equitable allocation of resources for our programs specifically. It's for our youth programming as well. For us, it's making sure that we achieve equity from a bunch of different levels. Moving beyond that, we want to make sure Canada Soccer is in a place to make proper business decisions moving forward, so I think from a governance perspective it's something that needs to be addressed as well.

Those are a couple of the topics that are crucial for us moving forward.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I am of course drawing many parallels to the challenges in the management of Hockey Canada. Canada Soccer has said that it does not negotiate in public. It must be said, however, that that is the path it has chosen, judging by the intimidation you have faced. It is embarrassing and appalling.

Since 2018, Canada Soccer has had a strategy for explaining its agreements with Canadian Soccer Business, and the rebuilding of the organization has been a success. That is what we see in the documents distributed to us.

Today we see that Canada Soccer is being allowed to attack female and male players.

What steps have to be taken right away to work towards equality and better practices?

What can the various stakeholders do, namely, Canada Soccer, the minister, parliamentarians, and your association?

[Janine Beckie]

The first thing we need is to rebuild the trust with our association. It has, on multiple occasions, broken our trust. In my opinion, the statement put out today is another indication of how difficult it has been to put trust in them.

The number one thing we have asked for is transparency of finances. We're still unclear on any finances past 2019. Prior to that is important, but especially over the last three years.... We need to know what has been going on in the finances in order to negotiate a collective bargaining agreement that makes sense for them and for us.

For the last 12-plus years, we have been negotiating in the dark. That makes things very difficult for us because, as we stated before, imagine the shock when we heard what they have been able to pay our men's team, after we have been bargaining in good faith for 12 years.

The next thing we need, like Quinn said, is systems of all kinds of things in place in order to make sure this change is lasting and there's accountability in place for whoever is in the leadership at Canada Soccer, so that we don't continue to take steps backward in 2023.... We live in a country that can be a shining beacon of hope for women's teams and federations all over the world in terms of what can be possible in football.

That's one of the main things. How can we put these structures in place to have lasting change?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

From what you are saying, from public statements, and with the situation being highlighted by various media outlets and journalists such as Rick Westhead and Olivier Tremblay from Quebec, I can see that sport in general is not a healthy environment.

What you are experiencing is very similar to what we see in gymnastics and what we have seen in hockey or other sports.

Do you think a public and independent inquiry is needed to shed light on how our sports federations manage their dealings with athletes so we can ultimately create a safe and healthy environment in which athletes are at the centre of sports development in Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I have given you an extra 30 seconds because of the translation but we should move forward [Inaudible—Editor].

[Quinn]

Yes. I think a public inquiry would be beneficial. There are multiple avenues by which the committee could potentially help—or other avenues, maybe within the minister's office—but a public inquiry in sport could be beneficial because, as you mentioned, it isn't a singular case. I believe there are problems happening in other sports across Canada and beyond, so there needs to be accountability through those processes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.