Canadian Heritage Committee on April 20th, 2023

[Kent Walker]

I'm very sympathetic with the point you're making. My wife, for many, years was a journalist. I was a journalist in college. Richard was a journalist for many years. We share the goal of trying to help newspapers and journalists evolve their business model at a time when there's more competition for news than ever before.

I think the answer to your question is that journalists traditionally tell stories that they want to be heard by as many people as possible. It's about how you can take advantage of platforms and dissemination techniques that will bring as many people into the tent as you can.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I would counter and say that a lot of journalists tell stories in order to inform their local communities. This is part of the journalism that we really value in Canada.

As we've heard today, Google has already made a whole bunch of deals with news organizations all over Canada. Why make such a big deal and have tests in the face of Bill C-18 when you're already doing what Bill C-18 would accomplish here in Canada?

[Kent Walker]

That's a really important point, and I appreciate the chance to weigh in on it.

It's not about our payment of money to publishers. We are happy to do that. We are already doing it in Canada and around the world. It very much is the principle of the model that is being established here.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's exactly my point.

Instead of being good corporate citizens, and working with legislators, you're trying to strong-arm us. You're trying to intimidate us. You're not engaging thoughtfully in the parliamentary process like everyone else. I believe you've harmed Canadians with your tests that block news access.

[Kent Walker]

Yes. Certainly,—

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

It's an attempt to intimidate Parliament, sir.

Those were my questions, thank you very much.

[Kent Walker]

May I respond?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Walker.

[Kent Walker]

Very briefly, we have engaged, in the last couple of years, with the government, and with a number of parliamentarians to express these concerns. We've also been public about it in blog posts and other statements.

Our goal has been to try to improve the quality of the legislation in a way that wouldn't result in harm to small, local journalism across Canada, or to the broader principle of an open web.

Thank you, Vice-Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Walker, and Mr. Gingras, thank you.

We do look forward to receiving some information in a timely manner, if you don't mind. All parties and the analysts have asked you today, in the last couple of hours, for the transparency report, the information from Australia, and maybe even the Canada contracts that you have with 150 organizations. Timely would be in two or three weeks, if that's possible, instead of months or years.

I know there's pressure on your company, but there's pressure on us as we move forward with our study of Google, Meta and Bill C-18.

This two-hour session was a hell of a lot better than the first one we had. Gentlemen, I think you realize that in the first one, you should have been here. In the second one, you've cleared up a lot of things.

Thank you for being with us. You were frank, and we look forward to hearing further from your organization.

[Kent Walker]

Thank you very much for the opportunity.

[Richard Gingras]

Thank you for the opportunity.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you very much.

Committee, are there any other thoughts? They can log off.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I have a motion to adjourn.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

There's a motion to adjourn.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

You did a great job, Mr. Chair, and so did the witnesses. I really appreciated that. You guys were very good.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

The meeting is adjourned.