Canadian Heritage Committee on April 27th, 2023

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I'm just wondering how effective it is to say, if you have a predator in the system, “There's a code of ethics.” I'm not sure that will go anywhere. What victims want to hear is this: If there are allegations against someone, he's not going to be allowed to go off and coach young people in another jurisdiction, where maybe the people in charge—like you—don't know where he's gone and haven't bothered.... They don't feel the moral authority to follow up and find out where he's gone and whether he's abusing other young children, as I'm sure they heard in court when he was convicted just last year.

Are there any gaps in the system, sir? Are you telling us there are no gaps left in the system?

[Steven Reed]

There are always going to be gaps within any system.

If they're mere allegations made, I don't know whether that's.... There's a public record of that. I think the safe sport roster makes it much more difficult for any of these individuals to get involved and coach within our system—whether it's coaching, refereeing or being an administrator.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay. Let me ask you this: Do you think non-disclosure agreements intimidate survivors and prevent them from participating in any investigation, and do you think those NDAs allow abuse to continue and spread to other victims?

[Steven Reed]

I would say that a non-disclosure agreement could have that impact.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

What's your position on non-disclosure agreements, then?

[Steven Reed]

I've never requested that anybody enter into a non-disclosure agreement.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay. That's very good.

Going back to the gaps in the system, I'd be interested to hear from your expertise any recommendations you have for this system, to improve it and to make sure that, even if they are just allegations, people are aware and people follow up. We really don't want to see this happen ever again.

[Steven Reed]

Again, I go back to the safe sport roster. I think we have a lot of the pieces in place there that provide that level of protection. I think there's just greater awareness around all the issues, and I think that because of that, because of the efforts of all of these individuals to bring these things to light and because of the efforts of Canada Soccer and other sports bodies to look to protect those vulnerable individuals within our system, those types of things will come to light.

The measures and the initiatives we've put in place will cover off most of that, but there are always going to be areas where somebody is going to slip through the cracks. I think that, if we're 99% there, then we've done an exceptional job of trying to address those issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Lisa. I think your time is up.

I don't think we're going to be able to have the second round of Conservatives and Liberals.

I will go to Sébastien Lemire for two and a half minutes, please

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Reed, according to the McLaren report on the Canadian Soccer Association, or CSA, very few CSA board members were aware of the decision to part ways with Bob Birarda. Why?

Also, why was this decision not recorded in the minutes?

[Steven Reed]

What period are you referring to?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I am talking about the moment it happened. There is no mention of it in the minutes, so it is very hard for you to say precisely when that was. There is no trace of it.

[Steven Reed]

The initial allegations came out in 2008, I believe. I'm aware [Technical difficulty—Editor] that the executive board reviewed the allegations and they engaged an independent ombudsperson to review all the details and come back with a report. I don't know why it would not have been reported in the minutes of the executive board at that time.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Why was the coach's licence not suspended immediately, pending the investigation?

[Steven Reed]

The coaching licence at that time was not something that was administered by Soccer Canada or the provincial bodies. It's a separate entity that grants the licences. I'm not sure whether that was something they sought to do at the time, but the licence is not granted by Canada Soccer.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In that case, why did CSA not follow its own harassment policies?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 15 seconds.

[Steven Reed]

Are you talking about 2008 and the policies that were in place at that time as related to harassment?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Of course. I am talking about that time and all the other times. You allowed terrible things to happen for which you had a responsibility.

Why did you not apply your own statutes and policies to prevent harassment?

[Steven Reed]

The actions of the executive board at that time were to review the allegations and engage the ombudsperson to determine what the next actions would be. That was the outcome of that particular event.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I will go to Peter Julian of the NDP.

Peter, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am very saddened by the testimony we just heard about Mr. Birarda. It seems he was given access to Canada Soccer and its associations and other victims. It is awful to hear this testimony.

I want to also come to the issue of financial impropriety that has been raised.

On the issue around the Canada Soccer Business contract, if I understand it correctly, Mr. Reed, you are saying there was no evaluation done of other contracts that other national soccer organizations have signed on sponsorship and broadcasting rights. There was no analysis done of what the potential revenue would be. This was simply signed without a full knowledge of what the financial impacts were on the organization and ultimately on Canada's soccer teams.

Is that true?

[Steven Reed]

No. Maybe I misspoke earlier or I was misinterpreted.

We did a fulsome analysis of what the outcomes would be. The model is based on Soccer United Marketing in the United States, where the MLS and the U.S. Soccer Federation collectively—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

What were the projected revenues in terms of broadcasting? I'm not talking about what Canada Soccer got. I'm talking about what the overall projections were financially for the broadcast rights, for the media rights and for all of the things that were being handed over to Canada Soccer.

What were the projections in terms of revenue over a five-year period?

[Steven Reed]

I don't have those figures in hand right now.