Canadian Heritage Committee on May 1st, 2023

[Richard McLaren]

Accountability is a very difficult topic to address effectively. It really requires the board of a sporting organization to have an understanding of what their role is—one of the speakers was speaking about that—but they also need to actually determine what it is they should be checking on.

They shouldn't just rely on the sports administrators and the advice or the information they get from them as being sufficient to really ensure that policies are being applied and guidelines are being followed, whatever the requirements are. Of course, finance is part of that, but there are many other aspects of that requirement in order to have proper governance.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you very much.

Now, I'll go to Ms. Bragagnolo.

You're an expert in governance. What would your recommendations be in terms of sports governance audits to prevent abuse of power? What should we be putting in place?

[Whitney Bragagnolo]

As I mentioned, there are existing global sport governance frameworks, such as the sports governance observer. These are benchmarking tools that enable organizations to improve governance by scoring on specific dimensions. You have transparency, democratic processes, societal responsibility, and internal accountability and control. These have been implemented as far back as 2011 in some European countries.

They work. These assessments ensure that organizations are advancing in the intended direction, and they also serve as a supportive process to support the objective of fostering ethical growth. With these audits, entities can be held to a higher standard of accountability, because you are requiring them to maintain and hopefully improve their capacity in a way that can be measured, in a way that can be assessed. Transparency, including the aforementioned athlete's anonymous feedback and employee feedback, also allows the public, including Canadian taxpayers, parents, athletes and media, to determine if the leadership is effectively doing its job.

Just to corroborate what Ms. Demers said, I would like to add that in some nations, public funding is conditional on compliance with good governance principles, and, for all audits, sport organizations have absolutely no say in who is doing their audit.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

That's excellent.

Could you provide some examples of those other European countries that are doing it well? Could you send them to the committee clerk?

[Whitney Bragagnolo]

Yes.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I think that's the end of my time.

Thank you.

[Whitney Bragagnolo]

Wales, the U.K., Australia, the Netherlands and Belgium—the list is quite extensive. We are very behind in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Marilyn.

I'm going to go to the Liberals, with Mr. Coteau, for six minutes, please.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you so much. I want to thank the witnesses for joining us today. I found all of the testimony very valuable. Thank you for making time to be here.

I want to start with Ms. Bookal with regard to the statements she made.

Ms. Bookal, thank you for bringing forward the issues you addressed, from accessibility to racism. These are issues we've heard a bit during our deliberations, but we haven't heard enough specifically on racism. Thank you for bringing it to this committee. Thank you for the work you're doing to advocate for more accessibility and anti-racism.

You said we've moved from sports for all over the last couple of decades to elite sport. Can you talk about that specific movement? Why do you think we went from access for everyone to more of an elite approach to the sporting sector in Ontario and across the country?

[Shauna Bookal]

I'm not sure what happened in the shift. As I said, in the 1990s, many things were accessible. Costs were down, so coaching courses were affordable for people to take. It was also all mandatory.

When it came down to competition, everybody wanted that gold. Everybody wanted to be number one in the world. What we would hear from the grassroots level was, “Being a first world country, why aren't we in the top five? Why aren't we in the top three? How come other countries that don't have as many resources as us are beating us?”

We just started seeing the shift of a lot of funding going towards high performance. Less and less was happening on the amateur sports side. When people look at the sporting funnel system, you have to get your athletes from somewhere. That somewhere is amateur sports. That funnel is now getting smaller and smaller. Many people can't afford sports.

To get these high-profile coaches, or to help pay athletes, some of these sporting organizations put that cost in the coach certification programs. To take one class, it's $300. Many people can't afford that.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I'm going to jump in. I have six minutes. It's not to be disrespectful.

I want to ask you a few more questions specifically about racism and the anti-racism work you're doing. We see in the media, constantly, overt cases of racism. There's also the hidden face of racism in many different sectors.

From your experience, have you witnessed, either directly or indirectly, forms of racism that may be more covert than overt?

[Shauna Bookal]

I have definitely witnessed it and experienced it. Unfortunately, everybody can say they want to be more diverse. In hiring, people are saying they want to put in place anti-racism, or have more minorities in certain positions to represent our country. People's actions are not matching their words.

For example, we have 63 NSO leaders right now, and three of them are from a minority group. That's out of 63. People keep saying there aren't many minorities to hire in certain positions, but when minorities do apply for positions, they say, “Well, you don't have enough experience in the sports sector.” They're saying one thing and doing another. It hasn't been matching.

The only reason I keep doing what I'm doing is to really help bring a voice to it. I'm that voice for people who can't sit at that table right now. I'm hoping we can definitely see change by bringing back some of the programs that worked in the 1990s. That's when sport was for all, and everybody felt included.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I'm going to jump back in.

I've done a bit of research. I've seen British Columbia, Manitoba and other provinces put in anti-racism strategies through their PlaySafe strategies. Manitoba, I think, just announced a couple of weeks ago an investment into an anti-racism strategy.

You talked about your organization's anti-racism strategy. I also noticed anti-racism in sport and Sport for Life. Based on a bit of research I've done, there has been a federal commitment to invest into programs to combat systemic racism.

From your perspective, are provincial and federal governments doing enough, or is there a lot more work to do when it comes to investing in organizations and looking for ways to combat systemic racism?

[Shauna Bookal]

There is a lot more to do. Not enough is being done. To be honest, giving money to NSOs is like a band-aid solution, because a lot of those NSOs are turning around and using that money for something else, not for what it was meant for. They'll combine another program with it, instead of it being just for an anti-racism or a BIPOC program. They will somehow collaborate with another program to help fund another position.

Organizations like Canadian Tire Jumpstart and KidSport are the organizations that governments should be working with, because they see things through a broader lens. When you want to look at organizations that believe in anti-racism and look at diversity, it is through Jumpstart and KidSport Ontario, ParticipACTION or YMCA, in those programs that they have, and not necessarily keeping on and giving more money to the NSOs.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

This is my last question. You put forward an anti-racism strategy for your organization. What are a couple of the big strategies that you think organizations can put in place now in order to combat systemic racism?

[Shauna Bookal]

Number one, don't put an anti-racism strategy in the same month as “Stop Asian Hate” or Black History Month. They should be separate, because these are things that shouldn't be done for just the 28 or 30 days a year. They should be done 365 days a year.

Also, let your employees feel like it's not a check box. Let them feel like you are invested in them and their stories, and what they can bring to the table.

What we do with our anti-racism strategy is we want to make sure we're hearing people's stories, not just writing their stories so we can put them on the poster or put them out there. We're letting them be involved in the process at the same time. That's where we have an apprentice program in which we have emerging BIPOC leaders working with me this summer to help us make sure we're sharing their stories, sharing their journey and understanding things from their perspective, not just from what we see in the media.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

The chair's about to jump in, but I wanted to say thank you for being here today, and thank you for sharing your insight.

[Shauna Bookal]

You're welcome.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Coteau.

Now I go to the Bloc Québécois, with Sébastien Lemire for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to start with you Ms. Bragagnolo.

Thank you very much for your opening remarks. Thank you, as well, for everything you're doing and the model you represent.

First, I'd like to know where you stand on an independent public inquiry into abuse in sport? What elements should such an inquiry focus on?

By the way, do you see a difference between an inquiry and an investigation? In French, we use the same word—enquête—for both, but there's a difference in English. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that.

[Whitney Bragagnolo]

For the inquiry, as per my recommendations, I strongly believe we need to begin with commencing independent sport governance audits. I believe the government made a commitment or said in the past that it would audit our NSOs and sport entities, but it has not done so. I believe that is a priority and an immediate must.

Again, this cannot be done by any current sport entity in Canada right now. It must be done by an entity outside of sport. I believe that we should be using the existing sport governance frameworks that are proven and effective and have been tested globally.

I believe that these governance audits must include anonymous athlete and employee feedback. Athletes have long been ignored, and they provide very important feedback and insight into the current existing vulnerabilities, risks and opportunities.

Again, things can look perfect on paper, as Mr. McLaren said. The policies look good, but anonymous feedback helps us ensure that these policies, procedures and people are fit for purpose and that they actually work. It shows us where we need to evolve them.

With transparent audits, we are able to hold people and organizations accountable in a way that can be measured and assessed. I think in the inquiry we can finally commence that. That's something that we should have been doing for 10 years. As I mentioned, this has been going on in Europe for over a decade.

We are grossly behind, and I believe that the inquiry would be a great place to start that.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You recommended that for-profit safe sport entities be subject to independent audits.

Under Sport Canada's guidelines, sport federations have to appoint an independent third party, but increasingly, we are seeing this turn into a business opportunity, with private firms fulfilling that role. We obviously have to go on blind faith when it comes to the implementation of the recommendations. The Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner is an example, to some extent.

What is your take on the organizations that are being set up? Do they have the independence they need to really bring about the cultural change we want to see in sport?

[Whitney Bragagnolo]

I think that independent governance audits should be required for Canada's sport, for the reporting mechanisms and for these for-profit safe sport entities. Basically, any entity seeking to work within sport in this capacity has to be held to greater accountability.

Even with good intention, a lack of professional capacity, a conflict of interest or a lack of independence will hinder the ethical evolution of Canadian safe sport and appropriate athlete care. Alleged wrongdoing, investigations, inquiries and support systems need to be handled impartially by accountable professionals who have the required competence and necessary training, and who do not have any history surrounding the enabling of abuse or corruption at any level in sport.

There are, as Mr. McLaren said, individuals in sport who have seemingly credible reputations on paper, but who have been involved in the enabling of abuse, have been abusive or are not fit for purpose and are currently trying to profit off integrity and rebrand as “safe sport experts”. They are working right now within sport entities or consulting firms in the realm of safe sport.

To mitigate these entities, any group seeking to work within safe sport ought to be held to greater accountability by audit.

This is not just a Canadian problem. My colleagues in Brazil, Colombia, Australia and the U.S. corroborate that we have to prepare for this risk.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have one last question.

What do you think of the leadership Sport Canada has shown in recent years, generally, and in the past year, specifically? Do you think it's doing enough?

Do trust and transparency even exist in Sport Canada right now?

[Whitney Bragagnolo]

I am concerned about conflicts of interest in Canadian sport right now. This is in situations in which, for example, legal professionals, academics or consulting firms are hired by sport organizations to advise or to provide guidance on evolving their operations. The same entity might be involved with investigations for misconduct. This can lead to pressure—and I think has led to pressure—in minimizing issues. I think this compromises the credibility and impartiality of the organizations and of investigations.

These scenarios should not even be possible. Even if people are acting in good faith, this should not be possible. It's no surprise to me that some entities do not want an inquiry. This is what governance audits help avoid.