Evidence of meeting #79 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meta.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
You are running out of time. I will now go to Peter Julian.
Peter, you have six minutes, please. Everybody is going over six minutes and I'm allowing you to have equal time, so go ahead.
Noon
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The questions that Mr. Champoux just asked are altogether legitimate.
Mr. Clegg is an experienced parliamentarian. I therefore find it hard to believe that he didn't know he was muddying the waters by requiring an invitation rather than a summons. He can prove that he is prepared to come and testify by responding to our summons and coming to answer our questions next Monday.
We'll see. I remain skeptical with respect to some of the answers, but grateful in other instances for your clarifications.
Ms. Curran, you talked about the product team that is currently working on what I perceive to be a threat to parliamentarians and our democracy, saying that you will respond if Bill C-18 is passed in the Senate.
At this point, is that product team examining limiting access by Canadians to emergency services information? You can understand that in an emergency, people need information immediately. Meta Platforms did that in Australia, and I find it absolutely reprehensible that Meta may be looking at doing that in Canada.
Noon
Head of Public Policy, Canada, Meta Platforms Inc.
Through the chair, no, it's our intention that none of those pages that are not in fact news pages will be blocked or removed or removed from access by Canadians. We are working very carefully to ensure that doesn't happen.
Mr. Julian, this is a business decision that we're being forced to make by this legislation. We wish we were not in this position. We don't want to have to make this decision, but if we are forced to make it, we will remove news in a way that's very careful, that is responsible, that is transparent. We'll make sure Canadians still have access to emergency pages, to government pages, to community service organizations and to politicians' pages as well, Mr. Julian.
Noon
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you. It didn't happen in Australia. Reprehensibly, Meta blocked access for Australians, and I think you're not reassuring us today that Meta will not do the same thing.
What were Meta's profits last year in Canada? What were the revenues raised in Canada?
Noon
Head of Public Policy, Canada, Meta Platforms Inc.
We don't break out Canadian revenue. I can confirm that Meta's revenue for the last quarter, I believe, was in the order of $13 billion.
Noon
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
My other question, which I imagine you will not respond to, is this: What were the taxes paid in Canada in the last year? There have been a lot of concerns raised about Meta not paying its fair share of taxes. Can you share those figures with us?
Noon
Head of Public Policy, Canada, Meta Platforms Inc.
Yes, we can follow up to give you a number for that, Mr. Julian. I can confirm that we do pay all the taxes we're required to pay in Canada. That includes corporate tax. That includes payroll tax. That includes GST and HST.
Mr. Julian, we do pay our taxes in Canada. I can give you that figure once I've followed up to get it.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you. I appreciate that and I appreciate getting your overall revenues in Canada, because then we can determine, and Canadians can determine, whether it's a fair share of taxes.
It's in the billions of dollars, of course. We know this, and with billions of dollars, you seem unaware that Bill C-18 was substantially changed through this committee process. The NDP tabled a whole range of amendments that put the focus on small local news organizations.
In your testimony to begin, Mr. Chan, you didn't seem to be aware of those amendments passing and the overall impact that it has on the thrust of the bill. The PBO report that you cited took place before all of these amendments were brought forward by the NDP to put in place a framework that favours local businesses and community businesses that are providing information in communities across the country.
Are you aware of those amendments being passed?
12:05 p.m.
Global Policy Director, Meta Platforms Inc.
Mr. Julian, I have to say that on these sorts of matters, we take advice from our legal counsel, and our legal counsel continues to advise that the scope is unprecedented across the western world. It ingests all news links. It ingests audiovisual content and—
12:05 p.m.
Global Policy Director, Meta Platforms Inc.
It would make us pay for something that we don't put on our system.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
My question was very simple: Were you aware of those amendments? You don't appear to have been aware.
12:05 p.m.
Global Policy Director, Meta Platforms Inc.
I did not say that, Mr. Julian. I want to be accurate for the record.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Were you aware of those amendments? That's my simple question. Yes or no, were you aware of those amendments?
12:05 p.m.
Global Policy Director, Meta Platforms Inc.
I'm aware of amendments, but unfortunately, our legal counsel has—
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Okay, then you were aware in giving your presentation that it was inaccurate. I find that distasteful.
12:05 p.m.
Global Policy Director, Meta Platforms Inc.
Mr. Julian, I don't know that this is accurate at all.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you.
I would now like to go to concerns that have been raised about Facebook and Meta doing little to counter the use of their platforms to spread hateful, false information from conspiracy theories. Also, in Europe, initiatives have taken place to flag content that incites and advocates extremism. Content must be removed from the web within the hour.
Is Meta co-operating with European authorities that are trying to crack down on what has been seen as hateful extremism that Meta has permitted online? Is Meta co-operating with the European authorities?
12:05 p.m.
Global Policy Director, Meta Platforms Inc.
Of course, Mr. Julian.
As we have indicated—and I believe you have been also present for some of these discussions—we have very strict content policies that go well above the rule of law in terms of what the laws require us to remove. We remove harmful content, we remove terrorist content and we remove violent extremist content, so yes, Mr. Julian, we do very much co-operate, and we welcome further opportunities to do so.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
The message today is that you will follow the law as adopted by Parliament, by the House of Commons and by the Senate.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much.
Now we move into the second round. We will have a five-minute round this time. We'll begin with the Conservatives.
Mr. Shields, you have five minutes, please.