Canadian Heritage Committee on May 8th, 2023

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to go back to the significance of the news content that can be found on platforms like Meta.

In terms of circulation, 3% of content searched for by users is news. You said that there were 1.9 billion clicks on news content over the past year, and added that the free marketing was worth a total $230 million. So you're admitting that there is a value attached to this content.

My question is more about Meta's interests further to the adoption of Bill C‑18. You mentioned earlier that contracts had been signed with 18 news organizations and I find that positive. Moreover, I think it's interesting to note that although you're not really interested in news, you are nevertheless signing commercial agreements with news companies. This nevertheless raised some questions that need to be asked.

If Bill C‑18 is adopted, will initiatives to support local journalism continue? Will these contracts continue? Is Meta going to remain interested in quality journalism content, particularly local?

Unfortunately, you only have a few seconds to answer, because I don't have much speaking time.

[Kevin Chan]

Mr. Champoux, I think it will depend entirely on the content of Bill C‑18 once the act has become law. If you want the framework to be very broad, that could influence certain things. If the framework is much narrower, it might mean something else.

We are waiting to see what parliamentarians and Parliament are going to do with their decisions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Martin. That was nicely done.

I'm going to go to Peter.

Peter, you have one and a half minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Since I'm the final questioner, Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No, I think we have two others.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

No, we don't have time. I will be the last questioner if we want to take the 15 minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I thought the committee agreed to three and three for the last two.

I want to hear from the committee. Do you all agree to that? No? You're fine? Good. If everyone is in agreement, that's fine.

Go ahead, Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to come back to Ms. Curran, who said just a few weeks ago,

I would say that we're still looking at all of the options based on our evaluation of the legislation.

That was in response to a question about whether Meta is going to act the same way it did in Australia.

From what I understand from your response to Mr. Housefather, you are saying under oath that Meta will not be impacting health emergency information and will not be restraining or suspending information people need, as they're seeing now in Alberta around wildfires and around emergency services as well.

All of those things took place in Australia in the most reprehensible way, with people being denied access to information that was actually critical for them, perhaps, to save their property and often to save their loved ones. Meta denied the access to that information.

Are you saying under oath now that this will not happen and that Meta in no way will impede Canadians' access to information that is fundamental for their health and safety and the health and safety of their community and that Meta will not do that again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.

[Rachel Curran]

That's correct, Mr. Julian. We're working very hard to make sure we don't make the same mistakes in Canada that we made in Australia when we removed news from our platform. We're working very hard to make sure that we don't take down pages we don't mean to take down and we don't take down pages that don't fit the definition of “news”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Peter. I think that's it.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have 15 seconds—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I don't have 15 seconds on my clock.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

—so I will reiterate that we would like to have the documentation that has been requested over the last few weeks, including the information that you have committed to give to Mr. Housefather.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's very good.

Now I want to thank the witnesses for appearing here and I'd like to suspend so that we can go into the 15 minutes of committee business.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chan and Ms. Curran.

[Kevin Chan]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[Inaudible—Editor] so reprehensible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry; did you say something, Mr. Chan?

[Kevin Chan]

I was speaking to Ms. Curran.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I see, but your mike was on, so we all heard your comment. I just thought you should recognize that, and it was quite inappropriate. Thank you.

Ms. Thomas, go ahead on your motion that was tabled on Monday, March 27.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, I did bring forward a motion earlier. Out of respect for the committee and the witnesses we had that day, I agreed to put it aside and discuss it more fully today.

It's based on a letter we received from the Auditor General on April 19. She expressed to us that she was interested in coming to the committee if we were interested in having her. It was, of course, with regard to a report she wrote on connectivity in rural and remote areas.

I acknowledge that this report blends between this committee and the industry committee, but the Auditor General is very clear in her report that some of the funding comes from Canadian Heritage. She is also very clear in her letter that this is one of the committees she would be looking forward to attending, should we invite her.

My motion reads as follows:

That, considering the Auditor General report tabled on Monday, March 27th titled “the Progress on access to high-speed Internet and mobile cellular services lags behind for rural and remote communities and First Nations reserves”, the committee invite Karen Hogan, Auditor General of Canada, to testify before committee as soon as possible for no less than 2 hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I had raised this earlier and I guess I didn't have a concern at the time, but my understanding is that the Bloc will move an almost identical motion at the industry committee.

I know when there's an issue like sport.... We were specific in making sure we were focusing on something very different from Status of Women. We didn't want to duplicate particular—

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

It has been moved.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

It has been moved.

I don't know whether we want to be more specific in terms of what we're doing, rather than calling all the same witnesses, or whether we're just calling the Auditor General. If we're calling the Auditor General in both committees to deal with the exact same thing.... Mrs. Thomas is right that it does have a Heritage element, but I think we can all agree this is—to go back to my law school days—pith and substance. It's something in the jurisdiction of the industry committee.

I'd like to hear from others in terms of not duplicating our efforts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Champoux, and then Ms. Gladu.