Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Madam Chair, as most of you know, when the pandemic started in 2020, I was a member of the news media. I don't know about newspaper subscriptions, but I can tell you that for broadcasters, viewership skyrocketed. I was covering the pandemic every day. People appreciated it. Many more people were tuning in to get this information. It was critical. We were in an emergency. What did people do to get the information they could trust and rely on? They turned to their traditional local news media to help them understand what was going on. It became so clear how important it is and why having strong news media is a pillar of our democracy.

It's very concerning. The news media was already in a precipitous decline in terms of financial stress. To see that we've lost 450 more news outlets during the pandemic is very concerning.

Could you tell the committee about the types of support the government had for journalism and journalists to get us through the pandemic?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

The 450 was for the last 10 years. For the pandemic it's 64. We touched on this a little before, with our colleague from the Conservative Party, when he mentioned the programs we put in place. We put in place a $600-million tax credit for news media. We also put $50 million for the regional press, because in some regions it disappeared. It's not there anymore. It's so important in some ridings, maybe not Montreal but in a region further away, where that's the only outlet that would cover what an MP would be doing in Ottawa, or a provincial MLA or municipal politician, so we put that $50 million in place. For the pandemic, we had $10 million over two years for the hiring and contracting of journalists in underserved communities across Canada.

One of the most important things we can do is to adopt the bill that is coming soon. Traditional media, newsrooms, will keep disappearing. You'll have more and more room for misinformation and disinformation. Through this bill, and I hope we'll be able to work together and adopt it, we're asking the big tech giants who are in quasi-monopoly situations to sit down and negotiate with news outlets—big ones, small ones, indigenous, regional, big cities, everywhere—in a market-based type of negotiation, where they have to come to a deal or else they will at the end of the process be forced to come to a deal through arbitration.

I think that can generate interesting sums of money for our news sector.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you.

Through you, Madam Chair, I know that in the minister's mandate letter there's also a goal to create a system of news remuneration. Can you describe that legislation a bit, and how it hopes to also support journalism in the country?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It's through the bill, which is fundamentally, as I said before, based on the Australian model. We're doing it at arm's length, and even more arm's length than in Australia. No minister will have a role in this.

We're making sure we're adapting that model to our own reality here in Canada. We are adding more transparency. Without any disrespect to what's been done over there, now, with time, we can take a step back and see if maybe we can tweak this or that and improve it, so that there's a bit more transparency. Also, it will include collective bargaining, which will allow the small players to regroup and negotiate with big giants like Facebook or Google.

Through that, we think there will be a structural change.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you.

Also through you, Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 16 seconds, Lisa.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay, quickly, the online streaming act also has measures that would support journalism. Can you go over that really quickly?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

The streaming act is there to level the playing field. We have our traditional system in which traditional broadcasters have a set of rules, and there are more and more people subscribing to the streamers than to traditional broadcasters. It creates an imbalance. They don't have any rules, so we want to make sure that they will contribute to Canadian culture.

It's not going to be the same way for everyone. We had some time to reflect, and we know those platforms have different business models, so we'll be working with them based on their models, to see how they can contribute. It could be percentages of production. It could be contributing to a fund, or other things.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now we have Martin Champoux for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Minister Rodriguez, some witnesses often raised a specific concern during our recent study. A number of them spoke of the challenges of reviving the cultural sector, but also of the appeal needed to attract clients to the cultural sector, for various reasons.

Older people will be a little more cautious when it comes to returning to their activities in public spaces, for example. We must also consider the fact that people's habits may have changed somewhat. There was a great deal of discussion about the need to appeal to the public and convince them to come back. It was also noted that government support will be essential in this area.

These requests were made to the committee in various forms.

Have you had any feedback from people working in the cultural sector?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

This point is extremely important. We must consider how we'll manage this recovery.

This is one thing that we wanted to discuss at the summit. The summit isn't another consultation to figure out what we should do and what measures we should put in place. It's a chance for us to come together to take a step back and look at how to work on recovery, one year, three years or five years down the road.

The summit is coming up. I'd like to hear from my colleagues in the Bloc Québécois, the NDP and the Conservative Party. This is a collective project. We must determine how to work on this recovery over the long term.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I'll change the topic and talk about Russia Today.

Minister Rodriguez, you'll be making an announcement later. A motion was tabled this afternoon, and it was passed unanimously. I'm always cautious when it comes to censorship. Obviously, given the current situation, it's extremely justified. This is about disinformation and propaganda during a war, which has no place on the air. In my opinion, cutting off the communication channels is a good way to participate in the war effort.

In your announcement, can you tell us whether any more general steps will be taken to give the Canadian Radio‑television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC, the authority to cut the feed, so to speak, of any foreign media outlet that may say something that we don't necessarily agree with?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You're right to bring this up.

We've been looking at this issue over the past few days. Our system is very independent. It also respects the neutrality of the regulator, the CRTC. Politicians must maintain their distance. However, there are mechanisms in place to request certain things.

Unfortunately, I can't go any further, but I'll talk about it later. We'll ensure respect and compliance in all areas.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you.

Do I have any time left, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 16 seconds.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Minister Rodriguez.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

There's creative math going on today at the committee.

Thank you.

Now we have Peter Julian for the NDP.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister Rodriguez, what time will you make the announcement?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have two and a half minutes, Peter. It hasn't changed.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

What time will you make the announcement, Minister Rodriguez?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I don't know.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Will it be around 6 p.m., 7 p.m. or 8 p.m.?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I don't know.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

We'll be left wanting then.

I'll move on to another topic. Several countries, such as France and Ireland, have already established a basic income for their artists. This is a good way for artists to contribute without ending up in a situation where they can't put food on the table.

Is the department considering a basic income for artists?