Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

I would first like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Pursuant to the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, January 31, 2022, the committee is meeting on challenges related to the recovery of the arts, culture, heritage and sport sectors, which have been deeply impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of recommendations from the health authorities as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on Tuesday, October 19, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person are to maintain two-metre physical distancing and must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when seated and including when speaking. Please use the hand sanitizer in the room.

As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting, and I thank members in advance for their co-operation.

For those participating virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. If interpretation is lost, please let me know immediately and we will ensure that it is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. I remind you that all comments by members should be addressed through the chair.

Today, I would like to welcome to our meeting the Minister of Canadian Heritage, the Honourable Pablo Rodriguez and, also from the Department of Canadian Heritage, Isabelle Mondou, deputy minister, and David Dendooven, assistant deputy minister, strategic policy, planning and corporate affairs.

The minister will stay for one hour—from 3:30 to 4:30—and then he will leave. The remainder of the Department of Canadian Heritage will be here to answer questions. They will be Joëlle Montminy, senior assistant deputy minister, David Dendooven, assistant deputy minister, and Thomas Owen Ripley, associate assistant deputy minister.

We will begin. Welcome, Minister, to the committee. I'm waiting with bated breath to hear from you. As you know, you will be given five minutes to speak, and then you will be able to receive questions for the full hour.

Please go ahead, Minister Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you very much.

Madam Chair, honourable committee members and colleagues, good afternoon.

Thank you for inviting me here today to speak to you about the support the Department of Canadian Heritage has provided to the arts and culture sectors throughout the pandemic.

You've heard me before. I often ask the question, “Can you imagine a day without arts, without culture?” It would be boring. Without theatre, television, movies, books, it would be super boring. Culture is fundamental to us, but that sector was hit hard throughout the pandemic, extremely hard. Each wave of the pandemic brought new or renewed public health restrictions, and that meant, Madam Chair, that theatres, cinemas and museums had to close their doors over and over again.

These sectors are vital. They're vital for our culture—for who we are—but also for our economy. Prepandemic, the sector represented 726,000 workers, workers whose livelihoods were immediately impacted by the pandemic.

Therefore, we immediately understood that urgent action was needed to help workers in the cultural sector. Time was of the essence, and we didn't have a second to waste. We acted quickly to help these sectors weather the pandemic. Now, the wave attributable to the Omicron variant needs to be overcome. We also need to plan for a strong recovery and build truly solid foundations in the sector.

As an aside, if I may, I'd like to thank all the public servants at Canadian Heritage and its portfolio agencies, who are absolutely extraordinary. I thank them from the bottom of my heart. Despite the pandemic and all of its challenges, despite the fact that we are all human beings and we all have our own challenges to overcome, they were up to the task. In fact, they were more than up to the task; they were absolutely extraordinary.

I would like to say a few words about our accomplishments. At the beginning of the pandemic, we launched the $500‑million emergency support fund for cultural, heritage and sport organizations. It was extremely important for the sector, and it worked well. In fact, more than three‑quarters of funding recipients told us that it allowed them to stay in business.

We also launched a $149‑million compensation fund administered by Telefilm Canada, which allowed organizations in the film and audiovisual industry to resume production. It was like an insurance that allowed them to continue filming. Furthermore, we have just renewed this fund. In addition, $181.5 million has been paid out to support workers in the performing arts and music sector.

We know, though, Madam Chair, that we need to do more. We need to do more to help the sector get through the rest of this pandemic and secure a strong recovery too. That is why, in the last budget, budget 2021, we included a historic investment of $1.3 billion to help ensure the recovery and growth of the arts, culture and sports sectors.

More recently, the advent of the Omicron variant in 2021 triggered new restrictions and lockdowns. Even though this was the right thing to do, it was another brutal blow to workers in the cultural sector. Let's be honest. As we have done throughout the pandemic, we listened to them, we worked with them, and we continue to do so to help them weather this storm.

After several discussions with colleagues from different parties, we have just announced increased support for workers in the performing arts by creating the $60‑million Canada performing arts workers resilience fund. Funding will be distributed through organizations such as guilds, unions and other associations.

This program plays an extremely strategic, even unique, role. The deadline for submitting applications is March 4, 2022, which is just around the corner. I know that you are aware, but if you know of people who might want to apply, please let them know soon.

There's no need to say that COVID-19 changed our lives. It fundamentally shifted the ways we connect and interact with each other. We also changed how we discover, how we create and how we consume content. We are on digital platforms more, and we need to make sure that our system and our culture are protected as a result.

We recently tabled the online streaming act, which will ensure that online streaming platforms contribute to our culture in a fair and equitable way. Our next step, Madam Chair, will be to introduce online news legislation, and that legislation will create a framework that makes sure that Canadian publishers and journalists receive fair compensation for their work. That's essential, Madam Chair.

At the same time, we're working on how to tackle harmful content online. It's a complex issue, we all know, and that's why we are working on putting together a panel of experts to further help guide this work. I look forward to bringing an update to colleagues very soon.

As you know, we had to unfortunately postpone the national summit on the arts, culture and heritage because of the Omicron variant, but we will reschedule it as soon as it is safe to do so. It will be held in person. We want to be able to see our artists and creators, give them the chance to talk to us, and reflect together on a collective vision for a sustainable recovery for the cultural sectors and on ways of making this vision a reality. The recovery is coming. I am optimistic. The sectors will bounce back. Better days are awaiting our arts industry and our cultural sector. Our cultural sector workers have been there for Canadians throughout the pandemic. They have made us laugh, think and cry. They have been there for us, and we will continue to be there for them.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Minister, the first round is a six-minute round. As everyone knows, that round includes the question and the answer.

We'll begin with John Nater for the Conservatives, for six minutes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today. I think this is your first appearance at this committee in this current incarnation as Minister of Canadian Heritage. Welcome. It's nice to have you.

I want to start with a topic that's on our minds with the situation in Ukraine and the Russian aggression. Over the weekend our party called for an order of general application to revoke the licences of state-owned enterprises that are spewing propaganda. As you know, just minutes ago in the House of Commons, we adopted a UC motion to put this into effect.

Obviously, we're thankful, as you mentioned, that Rogers, Bell and Shaw have done this. Will you be taking that extra step and asking the CRTC to take further action on this matter?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It's a very important question, Mr. Nater.

The rise of disinformation and misinformation requires a very strong response—we all agree on that—from government, from civil society, from everyone. I've been very clear. I said it clearly. RT is propaganda. RT is disinformation. RT is misinformation. I totally support that decision. RT has no place on our airwaves.

I will say, Mr. Nater, that I will have more to announce in a few hours.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I wait with bated breath.

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate those comments.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

They're only hours.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Yes, they're only hours. I will wait for that, but I appreciate that. I agree with the sentiment.

On the topic at hand, the impact that the COVID-19 pandemic has had on the arts, culture and sports industries, we can't underestimate the impact it has had on more levels, not just financially and economically, but culturally as well.

One challenge we've heard from witnesses and from the stakeholder groups we've met with is the stigma associated with the return to theatre, the return to live events, the return to large public gatherings. It's this idea that people are hesitant, and obviously rightfully so.

I'd be curious as to what efforts you, as minister, and the department are going to take to decrease that stigma, to tell people it's okay to return to the theatre, that it's okay to return to large public events. For two years we've been telling people to stay home. Now we're telling people to get back there, to get back and support the important cultural aspect. I'm curious as to what steps you'll be taking.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You're absolutely right, Mr. Nater. I saw it first-hand when I went to see l'Orchestre symphonique de Montréal. Even though the capacity allowed for more, the room was almost empty. I asked why. They said it's because people are still afraid to come to shows.

I also went to see l'Orchestre Métropolitain in Montreal. The members had decided they would miss a show once in a while so they'd keep fewer people in the room.

One thing we're doing—the $60 million we announced—that we're putting in place and that is going on now, will help artists from the live sector. Because events were cancelled and because the venues could not hold that many people inside, we're also looking at different programs to put in place to support, like in Quebec, the empty seats that are not being filled. That adds to a series of programs we have put in place in the last two years.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Flowing from that, so much of our arts and culture sector relies on international visitors, those cross-border tourists who support culture, who come and spend their money here in Canada.

This week we're going to see an end to the PCR testing at the borders, but there is still a requirement for testing. Will you be encouraging your colleagues to do away with the testing that's currently there, even the rapid tests, for fully vaccinated tourists?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That decision goes to my colleague from health, and Dr. Tam and the scientists. I would love to have the borders open too, but we have to be extremely careful in making sure we do the right thing. I understand very well what you're saying.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Obviously, you've met with representatives from the commercial theatre sector. You've heard the concerns. Come From Away, the greatest Canadian success in musicals in Canada, is currently being performed in cities around the world but not here in Canada. I think that's a greatly unfortunate irony.

One thing we've heard is that other jurisdictions have strong tax measures encouraging live theatre performances. New York State is obviously one of them. Here in Canada we have certain measures encouraging television and theatre production in Canada, which have been shown to be great successes.

As minister, would the department consider extending that type of provision to live theatre productions for the commercial theatre sector, as well as to the not-for-profit and non-profit theatre sectors? Many of us have those types of theatres in our ridings.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That's an excellent question. I have to say that I spent a lot of time during the Christmas holidays speaking with the people from Come From Away and others. We are looking at different options. The taxation part is more for Finance to look at. If it's a good thing for Canada and for the industry, I definitely wouldn't be opposed to it.

There are other mechanisms that we're exploring in partnership with Mirvish and others to create programs that don't necessarily exist now, or ways to help them that will benefit them in the future so we don't go back to the situation we were in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Nater. You have ended your time.

I'm going to go to Tim Louis, for the Liberals, for six minutes.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate this.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. Your passion for the arts is clearly on display.

I have said this before, but I will start by saying that science is getting us out of this pandemic, but it's the arts that are getting us through this pandemic. The artists are the people we turn to in order to make sense of what's happened and the challenges we've faced in the last two years.

Making art takes dedication, and that dedication requires support. We get more with what we support. I have heard many times from our artists that our government supports were a lifeline to their sector. That is the term they used.

Throughout the study, we have seen how far-reaching the Canadian Heritage programs are, the number of sectors that fall under the scope of Heritage and the number of programs that are created specifically to support those in the cultural industry.

Can you take a step back, look at those last two years, and speak to the scale and scope of the funding that has been created since the pandemic started?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Louis. If anyone knows the sector, it's you.

Thank you for raising the importance of culture and how it helped us to get through this. I said in my speech that we got through this with the help of culture. How many of you were in front of a television, playing the guitar, playing the piano or reading a book? We made it through this because of those things.

As I said, culture makes us laugh, think and rethink a lot, but at the same time a lot of people and a lot of sectors are very vulnerable. They don't have a safety net. This was a disaster for a lot of elements in the culture sector.

We started by putting in place that first $500 million, which was an immediate support for the arts and culture sector industry. As I said, we did a poll. I think 85% of the people said this was what got them through this. We added more money—$281 million—a couple of months later. The $500 million was in November, and then in April, we added $281 million. Remember, guys, that included the insurance for the film sector.

What happened with the film sector was nobody wanted to insure them, because if one of the main actors got COVID, everything was shut down. They had reserved the studios, the actors, the technicians and everything, so it would have cost a fortune. They had the problem with insurance companies not wanting to support them, so we came in with this $150 million to back them, which allowed filming to go on and on.

We came back with more problems in the end for festivals, this and that. I could read this, Mr. Louis, but there was help for our music sector, for our museums and for books. We tried to be there for everyone, because they are there for us as Canadians.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I appreciate that. That's what this study is. We're taking it a sector at a time and seeing what we can do to support them as they come out.

To put it bluntly, reopening doesn't mean recovery, and different sectors are going to be affected differently. The arts and culture sector—I know this from first-hand experience—is always the first to be affected and the last to recover in any economic downturn. The pandemic has taken that level of ups and downs, that cycle, to an unexpected and unforeseen level.

From our study already, we're hearing that the recovery is expected to be three to five years. What we have heard from artists across the country is that they feel like they have been heard and they have hope, but we need to continue that dialogue. Like Mr. Nater said, since the performing arts and the live performance sectors are so hard hit, it's a challenge to get to those workers, specifically the independent and self-employed artists in the live performance sector.

Can you speak to the supports for that sector, specifically the Canada performing arts workers resilience fund? What are the eligibility requirements for that funding, and what organizations can help us get that support on the ground to those performing artists?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Absolutely.

Another one of the challenges, Mr. Louis, is that because it's been so insecure—with opening, closing, shows being programmed and then taken down, and this and that—a lot of people have decided to say, “I love that, but I'm going to get a more stable job. I can't stay here because I have a family; I have to pay the rent and I have to feed the kids,” so we're losing a lot of amazing people, musicians, creators. That specific fund, as you call it, the Canada performing arts workers resilience fund, is the one I announced not too long ago. We had the discussion at the finance committee, with Mr. Champoux and others.

We're going to go through associations, guilds and unions. They have up to March 4, the end of the week, to apply. It's similar to what we saw in Quebec with l'Union des artistes. Those organizations have until March 4 to apply.

Then we are going to do a thorough but quick analysis, provide them with the funding and enable them to open up the programs to individuals. It's a maximum of $2,500 per person. It could be direct funding, but it could also be through services. We talk a lot about mental health. A lot of people in the cultural sector need that kind of support so they will be able to access that or other types of support, get help with the rent, training and all of that, and it's going to come very soon.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you.

I can't hear you, Madam Chair. I believe my time—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You have another 10 minutes.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I have another 10 minutes. I could talk for at least that long, but I will yield my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Tim, you have 30 seconds.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I will use the 30 seconds to say thank you. That's all. I appreciate it.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you very much for the questions.