Evidence of meeting #80 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Charmaine Crooks  President, Canada Soccer

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 80 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of Thursday, June 23, 2022.

Now, while public health authorities and the Board of Internal Economy no longer ask you to wear masks indoors on the precinct, masks and respirators are still excellent tools to prevent the spread of COVID-19 and other respiratory diseases. I encourage their use.

Now, I would like to do some housekeeping. I want to let everyone know.... Well, Ms. Crooks is the only witness. At the bottom of your screen, you will see a little globe. If you press that, it gives you interpretation in the language of your choice: English, French or the original language.

I also want to remind everyone that they must speak through the chair. Also, please keep your mikes on mute when you are not speaking. Click them off as soon as you finish speaking; otherwise, we get all kinds of sounds from the room.

Please do not take photographs of the screen. It's not permitted. You can view this on the House of Commons website later on.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, March 20, 2023, the committee is meeting to continue its study on safe sport.

We have one witness today, the president of Canada Soccer, Ms. Charmaine Crooks. I just want to welcome Ms. Crooks today.

Ms. Crooks, there are a couple of things that you should know. You will be given 10 minutes to present. I will give you a literal shout-out at 30 seconds before the end, so that you can wind up. Then we will go through a question and answer period after that.

Please begin, Ms. Crooks, for 10 minutes. Thank you.

4:30 p.m.

Charmaine Crooks President, Canada Soccer

Hello, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

I'm Charmaine Crooks. I'm the newly elected volunteer president of Canada Soccer, and I'm honoured to be the first woman and first person of colour to serve in that role in its 111-year history. As someone who has worked for decades to improve inclusion, ethics and well-being in sport, I do not underestimate the importance of this mandate, and I look forward to serving all of the constituents of Canada Soccer.

I'd like to begin today by telling you about my background as an athlete and volunteer. I hope to use my experience to further the conversation about good governance and safe sport in Canada.

I was born in Jamaica into a family of nine children. I came to Canada when I was six. Canada is where I developed and grew as a person and athlete, where I became a Canadian track and field national team member and an Olympic medallist.

I was the first female athlete in Canadian history to be named to five Olympic Games. As a former international competitor during an era when track and field faced systemic sports ethics challenges, I am deeply conscious of the importance of good governance and ethical leadership to ensure a safe and fair sporting environment.

At the 1996 Olympic Games, I was Canada's flag-bearer for the opening ceremony—partly in recognition of my work off the track with sport organizations and athletes. That honour cemented my commitment to being an advocate for making sport better.

In 2012 I was awarded the Order of Canada for my athletics and volunteer work with the international Olympic Movement, including for my efforts to develop the IOC code of ethics.

As a woman of colour who has been part of the elite global sport system, I've experienced both the wonderful and the unfortunate realities that coexist in sport. Whether abuse comes straight at you or is in the form of microaggressions, the pain and damage are real. As leaders, we have a duty to stamp that out.

I believe I've earned the opportunity and have been elected to take on the leadership of Canada Soccer and to use my experiences to help improve and heal it.

Some of my credentials, which I hope can assist this committee in its work, include my work with the first group of active athletes elected by our peers to the International Olympic Committee as voting members. As an IOC Athletes' Commission member, I have focused on building athlete representation and decision-making in the Olympic Movement and supporting athletes during and after their careers. I also served on the IOC culture and education commissions, the IOC 2000 commission, which was a reform commission, the IOC Ethics Commission, and the World Anti-Doping Agency. I believe these experiences are particularly relevant to the discussion we are going to have today about safe sport.

In addition to my role at the IOC, I was a founding member of Right to Play, which seeks to protect, educate and empower children using the power of sport. I also continued my role as a volunteer board member with the Canadian Olympic Committee and as a member of the 2010 Vancouver Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games Organizing Committee. With that background, I am keenly aware of the power and importance of leadership and sport as vehicles for achieving personal realization, uniting people and driving societal change. I'm proud of my record of advocating for athletes and championing fair, equitable and safe sport.

I have provided that background so that the committee here will understand my purpose: To stand by and advocate for athletes, who deserve our utmost respect and who are the reason we all do what we do.

In my new role as volunteer president, I have a duty to uphold Canada Soccer's mission to provide leadership in the pursuit of excellence in soccer at the grassroots, national and international levels. We strive to lead Canada to victory, but we also encourage all Canadians to have a lifelong passion for soccer and work to ensure that it's the safest sport in our country. We are committed to ensuring that the association delivers on every aspect of that mandate every day. Over the last few years, substantial progress has been made to ensure more board engagement, and certainly, in the last few months, there has been a desire to increase transparency.

The modernization of our board has resulted in the election of a woman of colour as president and of Paul-Claude Bérubé, a Quebec lawyer and person with disabilities, as our vice-president. In recent months, Canada Soccer's leadership has brought an improved approach to how we listen and collaborate. We began work with all of our members and partners to build a better, more inclusive environment for players, coaches, referees, administrators and volunteers.

That work strengthens our record over the last decade plus of building robust safe-sport protocols like the Canada Safe Sport Roster. It's also supportive of our commitments to deliver on equal pay and to ensure that the environments for both senior national teams are set up for long-term success. Those priorities will continue to be a focus during my presidency, and we will achieve further improvements in those areas.

On the topic of inclusion, I want to recognize a key step towards a landmark for women's soccer in Canada: the creation of the domestic women's professional league. At the recent Canada Soccer annual meeting, our membership unanimously voted into membership Project 8, the new women's professional soccer league here in Canada. We are rapidly approaching the day when women's professional teams in Canada will help develop the next generation of women's national team players. I am thrilled for the Project 8 team, and we look forward to the successful future of the league and its players.

Now, our national team players—and all our athletes, referees, members and fans—deserve the very best sports environment. We will continue to work over the next year and beyond to ensure that is the case. On that note, during the past few weeks, as interim and now elected president, I heard from our players, members, partners and fans alike that trust, greater transparency and better communication are crucial to ensuring that we are a stable and strong organization that every Canadian can be proud of. I've heard and I wholeheartedly agree with that input.

In this time of evolution, my mandate, along with the board's, is to continue that work and improve conditions in all areas of our sport. I think we all know that the sports system is imperfect. I'm sure the elected officials who make up this committee know that the best way to make change is to get involved and to usher change from within. That is what I have always striven to do and what I intend to do in my new role.

My key priorities are to ensure that pay equity is realized and that the national teams' budgets are managed effectively to ensure success for our women's and men's programs; to engage in discussions with Canadian Soccer Business to ensure that both parties benefit equally from this partnership and that discussions around the women's game in Canada are continued; to get more people from the business world and more players engaged in governance to ensure that they have a voice in the association's direction, thereby providing more voting power for members and ensuring that the grassroots level has a voice throughout the association; to ensure that full administrative and financial transparency is ensured and eliminate the uncertainty and misunderstandings that led to some of the hardships within the association and with our players; and finally, to build an environment in which people feel safe to participate in our sport and to voice their opinions, and in which diversity is valued and included.

As interim president, I contacted and met with many stakeholders, including territorial and provincial members, players' representatives, alumni, the Project 8 team, CSB and others. As president, I intend to continue that outreach, and have already started that in my first week.

I've lived my life advocating for athletes' rights. I know that to build trust you need to be transparent and actually follow through on what you say you will do. I know what it's like for athletes to make personal and financial sacrifices, to train for long hours, to spend time away from family and to put their minds and bodies on the line to realize their dreams for Canada.

As president, I'm excited for and committed to realizing the current opportunity to heal and move Canada Soccer forward so we continue to grow the grassroots, build on the success of our national teams and truly maximize the potential of the professional game in both the women's and men's games. That commitment includes appearing before you today to address your questions directly and with respect.

In turn, during your questioning I expect members of this committee to display the proper respect and decorum that this important vital topic deserves and to further the principles of safe sport, which include creating safe spaces for solution-seeking and discussion. I, along with my partners and along with all the members, will execute this presidency in the same spirit.

Thank you for your attention. I look forward to answering your questions.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much, Ms. Crooks. I was just about to give you a 30-second shout-out, so there you go.

Now we're going to the question and answer component. The first round is a six-minute round. The six minutes includes the question and answer. We have shortened this meeting because of the votes, and I know it's Thursday and all kinds of people have to get flights to get home, etc., so I'm hoping we can get a lot of questions in during the time we have allocated.

I shall go to the Conservatives. First up will be Kevin Waugh.

Kevin, you have six minutes. Go ahead, please.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Madam Chair, before I start, I would like to clarify the time at which this meeting will end.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Given that with past meetings on Thursdays people have rushed to get trains and planes, I would suggest that we could go to six o'clock, but I think that most people might find 5:45 better.

Again, I will bow to the will of the committee, whatever it wants to do. If 5:45 is fine, that's okay, but if you want to go to six o'clock, we will do that.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

I'm hearing 5:45 around the table.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

All right. We will finish at 5:45 exactly.

Thank you.

Mr. Waugh, you have six minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Thank you.

Welcome, Ms. Crooks.

I don't have to tell you that the national teams are absolutely pissed off with you and your organization. Before the AGM in New Brunswick, they sent letters out to everybody. They are absolutely disappointed in the leadership of Canada Soccer, which you have been a part of for the last 10 years.

I did hear your 10-minute speech. You have a problem with both national teams. Not only one now, but both of them are demanding massive change.

What are you going to do for them?

4:45 p.m.

President, Canada Soccer

Charmaine Crooks

First of all, what happened in the past was not perfect. I acknowledge that. That's why I stepped up to be president, and that's why I ran for election. I just want to make sport better.

Of course, I acknowledge a lot of the historic hurts that have happened in the past with our athletes, but we are working to make it a better place. All of us want to make Canada Soccer a better place. We've had challenges, and we will continue to work through those.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Have you spoken to any of the team members since Saturday's vote?

4:45 p.m.

President, Canada Soccer

Charmaine Crooks

Yes, I have seen many of the players, and I have spoken to some of the alumni, and we will move forward in the direction that will make us better. I've heard their concerns, and we are acting on many of them immediately.

One of the pillars will be athletes' engagement in the governance process, and we have already started looking at how that will be done.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Canada Soccer has been heavily criticized for conflicts of interest among its management ranks. According to The Globe and Mail, its policies to manage conflicts of interest received a failing grade—in fact, two of them, they said—suggesting that signs of a problem were apparent a few years ago. It also received a dismal grade for board development—one out of five.

You were on this board. I'd like your thoughts on what the information accessed by The Globe and Mail says about Canada Soccer. You are the second-most powerful sport agency in the country, yet you have a two and a one out of five, which are both failing grades.

4:45 p.m.

President, Canada Soccer

Charmaine Crooks

I did see some of that report this morning. I believe those reports are necessary as measures to see where organizations are, particularly when it comes to governance. What I can say is that our governance policies are aligned with some of the new initiatives that were announced today.

We have a very diverse board. We have a board with 40% independent members, so we have changed a lot of structures even in light of some of the new governance matters I heard about today. We hope that we will be better. We are working on being better and on making sure that all the voices throughout our organization are heard.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Your organization has not revealed the names of coaches who have been suspended. Athletics Canada and Gymnastics Canada have done so.

Why have you refused to name these coaches over the years?

4:45 p.m.

President, Canada Soccer

Charmaine Crooks

I'm not sure what the essence of that question is, but I can say that we have a very strong safe sport roster. That policy was put into place and approved by the board in 2019. With that roster now, a coach cannot move around the country without our knowing who they are. This is what we are doing within the safe sport roster to ensure that a coach who has breached will never be able to coach anywhere in the system across Canada.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Will you show coaches who have been suspended? Will other people in this country have access to that, or is it just a national registry? What are you going to do to show provinces and teams in this country that there are issues with coaches in this country?

4:45 p.m.

President, Canada Soccer

Charmaine Crooks

As you know, we are now going through the ITP recommendations following the McLaren report, and we will put all those in place. We are looking to strengthen that so that anybody who wants to go beyond the system and the rules will not be able to do that.

Our goal is to make this sport the safest in Canada, and we are strengthening that every day to be able to do that, especially with the coaches.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Thank you.

I'm going to switch it now to Mr. Martel.

Mr. Martel, you have two minutes.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Thank you to my colleague.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

It's actually less than two minutes, Richard.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

All right.

Ms. Crooks, I would like to know what your relationship is with the Canadian Soccer Business agency.

I know it's a very successful agency, and I would like to know if you are can make certain decisions yourself or if Canada Soccer is completely dependent on Canadian Soccer Business.

4:50 p.m.

President, Canada Soccer

Charmaine Crooks

As you may have heard in previous testimony, Canadian Soccer Business is an agency relationship we have that benefits soccer all across the country. In the past, to grow our game, we would have had to spend millions on broadcasting. What this has provided for us is the opportunity to grow our game through broadcasting and streaming rights. In the first 24 hours of my interim presidency, I had conversations with Canadian Soccer Business, and we are currently looking at ways to modernize this agreement. That includes looking at the unilateral terms, as well as at opportunities for sponsorship growth throughout.

Right now it may not be the most perfect deal, but this is an opportunity for us to grow our game.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

You are admitting that right now there is a problem between Canada Soccer and Canadian Soccer Business.

Is that correct?

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

We are over six minutes, but I will allow Ms. Crooks to provide a quick answer to that.

4:50 p.m.

President, Canada Soccer

Charmaine Crooks

I did not mention that. What I did say is that it is not a perfect deal. A lot of deals are not perfect deals, but we believe that in this time we will modernize it. We have already started that process.