Canadian Heritage Committee on May 29th, 2023

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Marilyn.

We move to the Liberal Party and Tim Louis.

Tim, go ahead.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

To the other witnesses, thank you for being here. I appreciate your time, your energy and your efforts, especially throughout the pandemic.

The artists, the creators and the producers are the ones sharing our stories, and they're our stories. During the pandemic, Canadians turned to artists to make sense of what was happening in our lives and to connect.

Minister, if you don't mind, I would like to start by talking about how we're modernizing our broadcasting industry. We know that Canadian creators need support to continue to develop Canadian music and all forms of art in the world of streaming, like our film industry, our music industry and our stories, and Canada needs to continue to support those emerging creators. With the passing of Bill C-11, the Online Streaming Act, foreign-owned broadcasting companies will have to contribute financially to our cultural system, the same as our domestic broadcasters have been doing for years and years, so Bill C-11 is a big win for our Canadian artists and Canadian culture.

I was wondering if you could expand on what happens. How is that going to affect and help our art scene, now that the bill has passed? What difference will it make for our Canadian artists?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Bill C-11, I would say, is a major step, because that act had not been modernized since 1991. I always joke about it, saying that I had black hair at the time, but it was true. Also, if you look back, you'll remember that we would go to Blockbuster to rent movies. We didn't have Internet in our homes and we would listen to music on our Walkman. That was the last time the bill was modernized. Streamers didn't exist at the time.

We were working until recently with legislation that was drafted even before the existence of the Internet in our houses, before it was commonly used, so it was an important step, and there was a lot of work behind Bill C-11. You guys had it here for a long time, and it was in the Senate. I think it has a record for the bill that spent the most time in a committee in the Senate in the history of the country, so I think it's been well studied.

I think it's a beautiful compromise. Is it a perfect bill? No, but I think it's a beautiful compromise that is largely supported by the music industry, the film industry and the television industry. Why? It creates a level playing field, and it's going to ask the streamers that....

You know, I always say it, because we do love them. I do. This morning I was working out and I was watching The Mandalorian on Disney. I have Netflix. I have a lot of them, and they make a lot of money, which is good. I'm happy that they make money, but if they come here and they make that much money, they also have an obligation to play by the rules and support the creation of Canadian content.

In the same way that conversations were more difficult a couple of years ago, things have changed. The streamers understand that. You have not seen a lot of resistance recently from the streamers, because they get it. They're playing ball with the government, not only here but in other countries, so there will be more money for music, there will be more money for television and there will be more money for movie creation. I think that's great news for Canadians.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you very much for that answer.

Yes, you're talking about how these other companies from other countries have to play by the rules, and that's going to help to protect our culture, but the work is not done.

The legislation has passed. It's gone through the House and through the Senate and it's received royal assent. Now maybe you can explain what those next steps are, because there is that balance between legislation and regulation so that we don't have to continue to chase the technology that's moving so fast. Can you explain what the next steps are with where we are?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Absolutely. We touched on it a little bit with Ms. Gladu.

The next step is finalizing the draft version of the policy direction. That draft version is almost ready. It's going to be out very soon and going out for consultation. Canadians will be able to give their opinion. That's a very important step. We'll then prepare the final version, based on what we've heard, and send it to the CRTC, and they will start drafting their regulations based on the policy direction and other stuff they've been doing. They'll be consulting, and at the end of the day they'll be preparing the regulations, which will be implemented.

In the same way that there was a lot of consultation on Bill C-11, there will be a lot of consultation on what's coming after Bill C-11. I think it's good, because when we consult people, we get good ideas.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I appreciate that. Thank you, Minister.

I believe that's my time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Actually, Tim, you had another 35 seconds.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I'll take it. I can do that.

I want to thank you. I've been working through this since it was Bill C-10. Coming up with ideas creatively from all sides of the House, all of the Senate and the House itself, and having contributions from the ministry have been very helpful. I look forward to being involved in the next steps.

There are three seconds left. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay. Thanks, Tim.

We move to the Bloc. Mr. Champoux, you have six minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start by welcoming Mr. Doiron. I have a friend with the same name, and he's been called Doyon or Dorion his whole life. Hello, Mr. Doiron. I also welcome Ms. Mondou and Mr. Ripley.

Minister, it's a pleasure to finally have you with us. We want to talk to you about many things, including bills we studied over the last two years, Bill C‑11 and Bill C‑18.

I also wanted to talk with you a little about the cultural industry's recovery. I imagine you're familiar with the committee's report on the industry's requests regarding recovery. Have you read it?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Of course.

Many players in the cultural sector, after the budget was tabled a few weeks ago, were extremely surprised and disappointed because they didn't find the expected response to their requests. I'd like to hear you on the subject. Have you heard the same thing from the cultural industry? Were there many cultural organizations dissatisfied with the amounts allocated to help them with recovery?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Some were happy and others weren't. You're absolutely right.

We’re not even in the second year of the mandate, Mr. Champoux. We’re trying to do as many things as possible, as quickly as possible. Among those who are happy, there are undoubtedly the national museums, who received significant funding. We also renewed funding for small festivals.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Indeed, funds were allocated to small festivals. However, they are the ones calling us the most right now, because their funding went down by 30%, which represents a huge amount of money. I'm not talking about festivals with budgets of 2 million, 3 million, 4 million or 6 million dollars, but festivals with small budgets under $100,000 for organizing their event. The financial support offered to them went down by 30%. It represents a huge loss for these festivals. You said the government renewed grants for small festivals, but it's certainly not enough.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

The difference is that sums of money granted during the pandemic went down. We were always clear about being much more present during the pandemic. We granted hundreds of millions of dollars, which saved small festivals and bigger ones. Now, funding is coming back to what it was before the pandemic.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Absolutely.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It's also what we managed to renew.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Absolutely, but it was one of the recommendations as well. It was also one of the urgent requests, which was almost unanimous in the industry. The cultural industry asked to maintain the level of assistance granted during the pandemic, because it would need more time afterwards to recover. That's what I wanted to make you aware of, because many festivals or events may not happen, since they're unable to pay the artists.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm glad you brought it up, because I'm very sensitive to it and the same people reach out to me too. We've always been clear about the programs having a time limit. So, these aren't cuts. The programs ended on time, but keep in mind that considerable funds were allocated.

As for the music sector, I have high hopes that Bill C‑11 will give it a big boost. When it comes to tourism, significant funds were allocated as well. It's also very possible that some of it…

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Big festivals are indeed relatively happy. It's the smaller festivals, the local festivals, that are suffering the most. They're going to reach out to you, because I told him to call you directly. You're certainly going to hear from them.

We talked about Bill C‑11 and Bill C‑18, which were both very important to me. I think we share the same vision of them, but I was still concerned throughout study of the bills, especially in the case of Bill C‑11, by worries among those who still consider it a censorship bill. You and I both know that's absolutely not the case, but maybe it wasn't well explained. And maybe it was somewhat misused by some of our colleagues, who took advantage of the fear about a possible infringement on freedom of expression.

Now that Bill C‑11 has passed and the CRTC will be looking into it, do you intend to respond to these people, to show more caution in order to reassure them about it? There's still work to do on that front, isn't there?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes, there's always work to do, but I think I had the opportunity to respond to these concerns throughout the debate, just like you and everyone else who supported the bill, as well as the entire cultural sector. The Canadian cultural sector, whether it be music, film or television, supported and continues to support Bill C‑11.

I've said it, but I'll be even more clear about my directive. The CRTC was very clear on the fact that it's not at all interested in content. Even if some claimed it was going to look at content published online by Canadians, Mr. Champoux, how many millions of videos are posted every day? Even if the CRTC were interested in doing so, it would never be able to look at them all. In any case, it's not interested in doing that.

All we want to know is how much money these platforms get, so we can make sure they invest part of it in creating Canadian content.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

You talked about your directives. Late in the process, we became aware of official requests sent to you by the government of Quebec. One of those requests was to systematically consult Quebec when regulating Francophone culture and Quebecois media.

How will you respond to this rather specific request from the Quebec Minister of Culture and Communications?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I had good discussions with the Minister for Culture and communications, Mathieu Lacombe, who I think is doing excellent work.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

We both agree on that.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm glad to be able to work with him. Quebec was and will be consulted. Now, as for details and the directive, you'll have to wait a few weeks. It won't be very long.