Canadian Heritage Committee on May 29th, 2023

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Well, yes. We have to look at the possibilities of providing more support to those small players, but also, as I said, there are programs they can access.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

No. It's not subsidies. They don't want subsidies.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

They're programs. It's not a subsidy in the sense of a subsidy—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Yes, it's a subsidy. When you provide a program and you don't advertise, it's a subsidy.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

There are different programs to support them. That's because their work is extremely important.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I agree. It's really critical. I have about 13, and most of them in my riding are independent—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

They're fundamental, and they're disappearing—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

They're not represented by anybody. They got zero out of whatever funds. It's not coming out of the $600 million. They got zero out of that $600 million. It's a big zero. Nothing. Those 13 got nothing.

The big tech guys haven't contacted them to give them any money out of the $300 million either. They admitted that here, and I've contacted them—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

The $600 million is not available for the big tech companies. This is only for our regular—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

The 13 weekly papers in my riding got zero. Do you understand? It was zero. They didn't get it, so who got it? Who got the $600 million?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Those programs are not accessible to the big tech giants. They're not for them.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Who got it? Who got that $600 million?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It was different media across the country, newsrooms—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

No, no, not mine, not the 13 weekly, non-daily papers.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I understand, Mr. Shields. It wasn't yours, but think about the media, big or small, in different regions—radio, television and papers. They are getting some money through those programs.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

No.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

They are.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

No. You don't understand. They're not getting it.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You're telling me that your 13 papers are not getting it. I fully understand that.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

No. They're independent. They don't belong to groups. They're not getting it.

That's what you fundamentally have missed, time and time again over the years. You don't get it, and that's why they're going down.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Shields, the $600 million is going to local media.

One of the benefits of Bill C-18 is collective bargaining. You can have a lot of them, even if they are not represented by anyone, get together. That is what they have done in Australia, and the small media in Australia, proportionally, got more than the big ones, proportionally speaking.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Most of that money, the $300 million, has already been negotiated away. We heard from your officials that 75% to 80% is already gone. It's already been negotiated away.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm sorry, but I don't know what the $300 million....

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Oh, it's Bill C-18.