Evidence of meeting #83 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Isabelle Mondou  Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Thomas Owen Ripley  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Cultural Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage
Eric Doiron  Chief Financial Officer, Department of Canadian Heritage

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

I call the meeting to order this morning.

Welcome, everyone, to meeting 83 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. The committee is meeting today to study the main estimates 2023-24 and to have a briefing with the Minister of Canadian Heritage on his mandate letter.

Before we start, let's welcome Geneviève Desjardins, who will be our new clerk and is taking over from Mike.

We welcome Ms. Lantsman this morning. Thank you.

The rest of us are in place.

As you all know, the Honourable Pablo Rodriguez, Minister of Canadian Heritage, is appearing today.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us this morning. You've brought with you officials from the Department of Canadian Heritage to help out.

We have Isabelle Mondou, deputy minister. It's good to see you again

For Thomas Owen Ripley, associate assistant deputy minister for cultural affairs, the bike-riding should be good in Ottawa these days.

Last is Eric Doiron, chief financial officer. Eric, thank you for joining us.

Let's get started with opening remarks from the minister for 10 minutes.

The floor is yours, Minister.

11 a.m.

Honoré-Mercier Québec

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the members of the committee for inviting me to talk about the priorities in my mandate letter and the Main Estimates for…

11 a.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

I raise a point of order, Mr. Chair.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Is it translation?

11 a.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

We don't have earpieces.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Are you okay, Mr. Champoux?

11 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Is his French so bad?

11 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

We'll start at the beginning.

Go ahead.

11 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to speak with you about priorities included in my mandate letter and the Main Estimates for the Department of Canadian Heritage.

As you said, Mr. Chair, with me today are Ms. Isabelle Mondou, Deputy Minister; Mr. Thomas Owen Ripley, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, whom you know very well; and Mr. Éric Doiron, Chief Financial Officer of my department, who will also be able to answer some of your questions.

I often say how proud I am to be the Minister of Canadian Heritage. In fact, I had asked to come back, but you know how it works. The Prime Minister could have said no. In the end, I came back because I think it's an extremely important department for Canada's social fabric. To be honest, it's not the easiest job in Ottawa. We have a very ambitious program, but I think we're all proud to contribute to promoting and defending our culture and who we are as Canadians. Our culture and all those who work in the sector deserve our support. I'm thinking of our artists, our creators, our independent producers, our museums, all those who work in the arts and culture sector.

All parliamentarians, my team, my department's officials and I all work extremely hard to implement all these priorities. Many have already been achieved and others are underway. Among other things, I'm talking about supporting our cultural industries, protecting the rights of our artists, encouraging The production of books and music, museums, theatres, homegrown programs and films. We must also support Indigenous people's efforts to revitalize their languages, promote their cultures and tell their stories in their own way. All Canadians need to see themselves in what they watch and listen to. We must protect our news media industry and make sure our laws reflect our digital world which, as you know, is undergoing profound changes.

My mandate letter, as you can see, contains many ambitious commitments, probably more than ever. There are definitely more than there were the first time I was Minister of Canadian Heritage. One of the most important, at least to me, but probably to a lot of you too, is to modernize our broadcasting system to make sure it reflects the reality of how the industry works today, because things have changed in the past quite a lot. We're doing this to make sure our industry succeeds. We want our people to succeed and we want to make sure that our artists and creators and producers have all the opportunities they deserve.

Over a year ago, I introduced our Online Streaming Act. Recently it received royal assent, and I think we should feel proud of that. We may not agree on everything, but I think it's a huge step.

It's been a long process. We all know that. We examined the bill; we debated it; we improved it. Even if it was tough, parliamentarians worked hard to make this bill into law. It's the law of the land. It's the first time it has changed since 1991, so I want to acknowledge the collaboration of parliamentarians, witnesses and all those who participated, including all of you.

The Online Streaming Act was the first success in a long series of actions we're going to take to level the playing field for everyone. When I say everyone, I'm talking as much about digital platforms as our broadcasters, newspapers and media outlets.

There's another step which I think is absolutely fundamental and unavoidable in this series of actions, and that's Bill C-18, the Online News Act. Access to reliable, quality news is the foundation of our democracy. It's one of the pillars of our democracy. The work of our journalists and newsrooms has value, and platforms must recognize and contribute to it. It's essential for democracy in our country.

Currently, a Senate committee is studying Bill C‑18. I hope things will keep moving along smoothly. There were some good conversations and I think things are moving along well. Our news community needs it. As soon as the bill passes, it will help ensure the viability of our local and independent media.

Collectively, regardless of our party banner or where we come from, our job is to stand up for them, for a free, independent, nonpartisan and professional press. Every single one of us must make the effort, because Canadians expect us to protect local journalism and have independent, free, reliable and nonpartisan press. We must make this effort together.

Coming back to the rest of the mandate, we've accomplished a great deal. I'm thinking specifically of support we provided to artists and the cultural sector during the pandemic. It was at the top of my mandate letter. It all happened while we were in the middle of the pandemic. There were tremendous concerns in the sector. It was at the heart of our actions.

We supported the entire sector throughout the pandemic, but the sector was there for us too. I'm sure you'll agree with what I'm about to say. It was hard to be isolated, not to talk to each other, to be on our own. Imagine if we hadn't had books, music and television. Itwould have been a thousand times harder. While we were there for the cultural sector, it was there for all of us too.

I say it all the time. I just can't imagine a world without culture, languages, stories, TV shows, books, our museums and our music. I'm happy to see that because of the initiatives we put together through the pandemic, nine out of 10 recipients told us that our recovery fund helped them stay in business.

That's not all. Over a year ago—and you probably remember this—in May of last year, we held a national summit with cultural leaders from across the country, with people coming from everywhere. Hundreds of people came to talk here in Ottawa about the future of the sector. That was another very important moment. We met and reflected on the needs of the sector. Since then, we've seen our artists return to the stage, our venues fill up and our museums welcome visitors again. All of this is absolutely great to see.

Do you know what? The reality is that the credit goes to the cultural community, because they're the ones who did the job. We provided the funds and we had programs here and there, but they're the ones who worked hard to get back to prepandemic levels of activity.

We were there for them and we were committed to supporting the recovery all the way. A lot has been done, but you will definitely agree that a lot remains to be done also. There's so much work to do.

That brings me to the next topic that I'm here to talk about today, which is my department and portfolio budgets.

For the coming year, Main Estimates for the Department of Canadian Heritage will be $1.9 billion. That includes $202.9 million in operating expenditures and $1.7 billion in grants and contributions. That's an adjustment of $244.3 million compared to the previous year, simply because we’re coming back to our pre-pandemic priorities.

A good example of that is our creative export strategy, which supports the competitiveness of our creative industries at the international level, and we just renewed it for three years.

There is also an increase of $74.2 million in 2023-24 to support the efforts of indigenous communities to reclaim, revitalize, maintain and strengthen their languages. In the 2022 budget, money was also provided to foster a more inclusive arts training sector and to continue to support the postpandemic recovery of the arts sector.

It's important because it shows that we were there during the crisis, during the pandemic, that we're still there today, that we've been there for all Canadians and that we kept our promise to leave no one behind.

We will continue to be there.

Once again, thank you for your work, your dedication, your analyses and your reports. I'm here to work with you to see what we can do together to help the people we represent.

I'm now ready to take your questions.

Thank you very much.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Thank you very much, Minister.

The first round will be a six-minute round. We'll start first with the Conservatives and Marilyn Gladu.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and your department executives, for being here today.

Because of the work that's been done with Bill C-11 and Bill C-18, the CRTC is going to have a huge amount of work to do, but I notice in the estimates that they've not been given any additional money in this budget, and there are words there that suggest that additional money could be added.

Can you give us an idea of how much it will cost for the CRTC to fully implement the provisions of Bill C-11 and Bill C-18 when they get royal assent?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

I agree with you that Bill C-11 and Bill C-18 are major steps and that the CRTC will be playing an important role.

I remember that we put in place an additional amount of, I think, $1.9 million for the CRTC regarding Bill C-18. As for the rest, we have to see exactly where we go in terms of regulations and the amount of work that's going to be done, but the CRTC will be fully funded for that, and they are confident that they can do the job on both bills.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you.

Then we don't really know yet how much that will cost.

I remember, Minister, that the last time you were here, we were talking about the policy criteria that would be given to the CRTC to determine which content would be uploaded and which would be buried, and you said that we would see that policy directive or those criteria in due time.

Parliament has not seen those, but the CRTC has begun their consultations. I'm sure that they wouldn't be starting consultations without a direction. Have they been given a policy directive and criteria, and if so, can these be given to us? If not, why are they consulting without a directive? That would be the question.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

No, they didn't receive it, Madam Gladu. We're finalizing the draft version of the policy direction, and it's a question of weeks. It shouldn't be very long.

Then, as you know, it will be sent for consultation, which is very important, and after the consultation we draft a final version that is sent to the CRTC. They will then adapt the work based on that, and they will go on with drafting the regulations and consulting and then finalizing the regulations. There will be a lot of regulations in the next steps, which is a good thing.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Certainly they need to have criteria. My concern is that before they've consulted and before they received a policy directive and criteria from the government, the CRTC is already considering decisions about whether or not they're going to allow the streaming of certain U.S. news outlets to Canadians. It was a concern of President Biden that perhaps Bill C-11 would result in something that would violate the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement.

What would you say to Canadians who are concerned that the CRTC may be already starting to talk about what things they can see and what things they can't see?

May 29th, 2023 / 11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Ms. Gladu, with all due respect, the bill is not about what Canadians can see or not see. Bill C-11 is basically going to do two things: asking the streamers that we all love—Disney, Netflix and others—to contribute to the creation of Canadian content, and also to make sure that what we produce, which is great music and great films, is easier to find. It has nothing to do with our getting involved in the content. The CRTC has already said that they're not interested in the content.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

That's right, but they've put on the public record that they're considering not allowing a certain U.S. news organization to stream to Canada, so that is telling people what they can see and what they cannot see.

I know the Senate brought forward amendments to exclude individual user content from the bill, and the government rejected those amendments. The Senate also brought forward amendments to say that cabinet shouldn't be able to direct the CRTC on how they should screen or prioritize content that Canadians can see, and those were also rejected.

Can you explain to Canadians why you didn't exclude individual content and why you didn't take away the power for cabinet to direct the CRTC on what to bury?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

It's because Bill C-11 is already not about content.

For example, as users, none of us will see any difference. If you are producing stuff for the Internet, it's not about you; it's about the platform. Even if what you do is great—and we have some of the best content in the world—Bill C-11 only gives obligations to the platforms. There is not a single obligation to the content creators, and we made sure of that.

I'll be even more specific in my directive to make sure that it's really understood, but the bill already says it. It's only about the streamers contributing to our culture.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you, Minister.

Let's talk a little bit, then, about the Canada media fund. I see in the National Post today that there are diversity and inclusion quotas that are being put into the Canada media fund.

We did see from your government with the Canada summer jobs program that people who did not ascribe to the Liberal ideology and sign the attestation were not eligible for funding, so I worry when I see diversity and inclusion identity quotas.

Could you reassure Canadians that it's not going to be another attempt to make sure that people who don't ascribe to the government's ideology don't get funding?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

We would never do that at all.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Well, Minister, to be fair, that was done under the Canada summer jobs program, and there were lawsuits. Redeemer University won their lawsuit against the government for being discriminated against under that program. People are concerned to make sure the Canadian media fund isn't going to discriminate against media organizations that perhaps don't line up with the government's ideology.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

The CMF is doing an amazing job helping the production of our content for television, for a lot of stuff, and this—

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Minister, we're over time, so could you wrap up?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

We're talking about $40 million over two years, and this will support the creation of more French content and make sure that some people whom we never have the chance to see will be seen a little bit more.