Canadian Heritage Committee on May 29th, 2023

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

It's already gone. It's already been negotiated.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No. The bill has not even passed.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

It's already been negotiated.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Your officials have told us that.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No, no.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Your officials sitting here have told us that.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

In committee, they have told us that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Very quickly, Mr. Ripley, if you don't mind, could you...?

[Thomas Owen Ripley, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Cultural Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Shields, I believe you're likely referencing the fact that there are existing agreements in place, and Bill C-18 does provide a transition mechanism for those agreements to be taken into account.

However, once Bill C-18 receives royal assent, the CRTC will have to assess whether platforms have done enough against the criteria set out in the bill and assess whether those existing agreements are sufficient or not. The government's perspective would be that right now the agreements are probably disproportionately with the bigger players. As you note, more needs to be done to support the smaller players.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

And it's going to include the smaller—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay, we're going to move on.

Thank you, Mr. Shields.

We'll move to Lisa Hepfner and the Liberal Party for five minutes.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister and our other guests, for being here today.

Minister, just a couple of days ago I was at the sold-out fundraiser for the Art Gallery of Hamilton, which I'm sure you know is one of the biggest and best art galleries in all of the country. People were lined up down the street, dying to get in once they reopened during the pandemic.

I also recently visited a couple of TV shows that are being filmed in Hamilton. That's an industry that didn't shut down at all during the pandemic. All are very grateful for the supports from your department. I have also met with people who put on local festivals in Hamilton, who are also grateful for supports.

However, not everybody has recovered entirely from the pandemic. It's still difficult. Crowds have changed. People don't plan anymore. They don't buy their tickets to an event until the very last minute. It's very hard for music producers, for example, to know how many people or how much they can pay to put on their event. Everything has changed.

Could you reflect on that for us a little?

You mentioned that one of the first things you did in this session as minister was to hold a national seminar on the arts, culture and heritage. Tell us what you've heard from artists lately. What does the future of the arts look like in Canada?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That's a big question. I'm not sure any of us has the full answer to that. We understand there are many challenges.

One of the things we got out of that summit.... It was a huge success, by the way. We had 400 people from all over the country, and hundreds of people were on the screen. A big topic of discussion and debate was the fragility of many of our workers. The arts and culture sector was one of the hardest hit during the pandemic, especially the live arts.

If you think about it, you had venues and maybe you had a gig where you would play the guitar. Let's say Mr. Louis had a gig, and he was playing at a certain venue. The venue would say, “No, sorry; there are COVID rules. You're not playing.” The COVID rules then changed, and then it was, “Oh, by the way, yes, you can play next week.” The rules kept changing. We lost many people because these people who had contracts here and there were also parents. They also had to pay the mortgage or the rent, put food on the table, clothe their kids and all of that. Because of that instability, we lost many people.

We have to look at ways to offer more stability to that sector. Can we do stuff, for example, through EI? How can we also help the venues to encourage people to come back? We've put in place some of those programs. For a while, people were still concerned about COVID and going into a room full of people. People are a bit more reassured now, but not fully. It brings supplementary challenges, so you discuss live events and the future of television and movies at the same time. The way to approach this is to have an inclusive approach.

We have programs with the live sector. We have Bill C-11 for our culture sector. We have Bill C-18 for media and newsrooms. The most important thing is to listen and to learn from the people on the ground. I'm only the minister, right? We have some tools as a department, and some money, and definitely goodwill to change and help, but the people who know are the people doing the stuff on the ground.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Very good.

As you know, I'm a former broadcast journalist and I have spoken to many stakeholders about Bill C-18. I was very honoured to play a big role in helping shape the legislation and work on that legislation here at this committee. The Canadian Association of Broadcasters were here on the Hill a couple of weeks ago, and all I'm hearing now from stakeholders is, “Thank you for getting Bill C-18 through the House. When will it take effect?”

Please tell us about the next steps for Bill C-18. We know it's at the Senate right now. Is there a date we can expect it to actually take effect?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Part of the answer is in the hands of our friends at the Conservative Party, because it depends on what they do. Last time they took a lot of time. They wanted to really reflect on Bill C-11. I think they did that. Now they want to really reflect on Bill C-18.

In a way, Bill C-18 is a game-changer for our independent media and newsrooms. As I've said before, please keep reflecting on the importance of an independent press, a free press, a non-partisan press, in all different forms, for fighting disinformation, informing Canadians and searching for the truth.

These people are professionals who have devoted all their lives to this, but now the money has now gone to the big techs, and we have to find something that is fairer for the system.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Lisa.

We'll go to Ms. Gladu for five minutes.

We've started the third round. We'll probably also have time for a fourth round.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

First of all, Minister, I'm very surprised to hear you did not follow Chrystia Freeland's advice and cancel your Disney subscription to help balance your household budget. I also did not take her advice, because I too like The Mandalorian.

I want to move along and talk about a couple of things.

There is a lot of stuff going on at the National Gallery. Fourteen people have been dismissed. There's talk it can't fulfill its mandate. People are upset about a $300,000 contract for an outside consultant.

Can you tell us what is happening at the National Gallery? What is your office doing to bring that to a resolution?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

As you did, I followed that situation very closely, because it's a very important institution. It's a place I always loved to go all my life. When I was growing up, I would come from Montreal or Sherbrooke to visit the gallery.

I don't manage what's going on at the gallery internally, but I do make nominations. We're about to name the person who will lead the gallery very soon. The announcement is coming in the next few weeks, and we hope it will stabilize the institution.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Very good. Thank you.

Your mandate letter also mentions that you need to do work to support faith-based communities across the country. We have seen more than 68 Christian churches burned to the ground, vandalized or desecrated here in Canada, as well as many Jewish synagogues, some mosques and other religious places of worship.

I would be interested to know what actions you have taken as part of your mandate to ensure that people can freely worship, whatever their denomination.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I think that's very important, but it's not in my mandate letter, Ms. Gladu.

Maybe if I turn to Madame Mondou....

[Isabelle Mondou]

Mr. Chair, I think the reference is to the program that Public Safety Canada has to help support those communities to stay safe and help those places be secure.

You probably saw in budget 2023 that this program was approved, so there is going to be more money for people to be able to protect their communities, protect the faith-based institutions. It's our colleagues at Public Safety who are doing that important work.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

It was in the 2022 mandate letter for the minister that I was looking at. It said that part of supporting the preservation of culture was faith-based community, so I wondered what activities were going on in that respect.

[Isabelle Mondou]

We can follow up. We're not quite sure, but I can follow up.