Canadian Heritage Committee on May 29th, 2023

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

There will be a few cents left on the table, because most of the money has already—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

But there's no top. We don't know the amount. We don't know the total. It's impossible to say that 50%, 25% or 75% of the amount has been taken, because there's no top.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

All right. I'm just going by the journalists, who we say are doing good work on saying how much money is on the table, because they've done their research and they know.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It depends on the deals that are going to be negotiated. It's impossible for us to say how much money there will be.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Okay. Let's go to the National Arts Centre over here, where I am a frequent participant. I like live performances.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We'll go together someday.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I would appreciate that.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Absolutely.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

When I turn on a car, my radio is Virgin Radio because I never turn on the radio in the car.

I met with the indigenous staff who have been hired there. They said there was money just to hire two staff, but none to do any programming. What's the point of having just two indigenous staff over there, but no money for programming?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We'll have to get back to you, because we don't manage internally what they do with their funds.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

It's like Bill C‑91, which you referred to earlier. I was there when Bill C‑91 got jammed through, right at the end. How long did it take to appoint the three commissioners for that?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That was under my predecessor. It took a while, but the commission is in place. The commission is there. They have the three directors. Things are working out now.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Now, can you tell me how much of that money—that $300 million—has gone out to the indigenous organizations?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We're distributing....

How much money is there per year?

Now we've changed the way we work, Mr. Shields. Before, we would match everything. We received projects and we sent money. That is not the basis of the bill. It's the opposite—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I know the bill. I was there.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Martin—

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We said, “You guys know what to do with it better than we do”, so we made three specific deals with the three NIOs. We give them the money, and they distribute it for their projects.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

How much of that money is out the—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Martin. Your time is up.

We'll go to Mr. Bittle for the Liberals for five minutes.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

I know Mr. Champoux asked this question in French, but I'm wondering whether you can address it in English as well.

We've seen at this committee, and even around the world, the contempt Meta and Google have for the democratic process, not just in Canada but also in Australia and even in the United States. They are refusing to bring witnesses, giving evasive answers, threatening members of parliaments and threatening to take away news from Canadians.

I'm wondering whether you can comment, as minister, on the actions of the tech giants.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Bittle.

Thank you also for all the work you've been doing on the important bills. You've done a lot on the consultations and all of that, and thank you for replacing me in the last days when I couldn't be here.

I'm worried, Mr. Bittle, as everyone around this table should be. Whatever the colour of the party, if we run for office, it's because we believe in democracy. It's because we have the privilege to represent the people by voting. When a big tech company, whatever the size, with the amount of money and the powerful lawyers they have, comes here and tells us, “Well, if you don't do this or that, I'm pulling the plug”, that's a threat. That is unacceptable. That, in my opinion, should be equally unacceptable for all of us, whatever our political colour, here and in the Senate. What Google did by cutting access to information to a certain percentage of Canadians is unacceptable.

I have never done something because I was afraid of a threat. I will never do that.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I would like to take us back a bit, to the Bill C‑11 debate.

It's almost, at times, as if we're having this parallel discussion. There's what's happening in reality, what's actually in the bill and what we hear in the House of Commons, especially from the Conservative Party. We even heard a bit of that today, when there was a suggestion that the CRTC, which is independent, is looking into Fox News. It's interesting that Conservatives are standing up for Fox News. It was suggested that it was related to Bill C‑11, even though it was an independent complaint made by Égale Canada with respect to the treatment of the LGBTQ2+ community. The CRTC is independently investigating that, and the suggestion that this is censorship via Bill C‑11....

I wonder whether you could comment on this parallel debate leading into misinformation on Bill C‑11.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It has nothing to do with it. I don't know what else I can say. There's absolutely no link between Bill C‑11 and the decisions of the CRTC or their consultations on this. It's zero.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Building upon that, I try to suggest to the constituents with whom I have conversations that when they hear online that we're going to go to YouTube or Spotify.... We're still going to listen to and watch what we want.

I wonder whether you can comment on the actual effect on the person sitting in front of their computer screen. What is it going to look like for your average Canadian?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Nothing.

At the end of the day, we're asking the streamers to contribute to the creation of Canadian content and make sure they showcase some of the stuff we do, because we do great stuff in terms of music and cinema. They can do it online or off-line, or they can put big panels on the side of the road that say, “Hey, watch this show—it's absolutely amazing.” On their website, they can advertise some of the things they do in terms of creating Canadian content.

However, at the end of the day, you, Mr. Bittle—and only you—will decide what you watch. That's it.