Canadian Heritage Committee on June 5th, 2023

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Has your organization ensured the quality of services? Can you tell us if complaints are handled in a way that takes into account the trauma experienced by an athlete, for example, if I go back to the previous testimony? Do you make sure you provide a safe and caring environment for athletes who come forward?

[Suzanne Paulins]

Our third party is independent. Complaints will go directly to her. As the next step, she will then triage these, and make recommendations based on our policies and procedures. That could go to a mediation. It could go to a disciplinary panel. It could be a referral back to the provincial section, depending on the jurisdiction of the complaint. In some cases, it could just be providing advice and guidance.

We're constantly learning, but our independent process has worked. OSIC has added a new level to that, a new level of independence for the national level complaints that we are receiving and have seen.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you. My time is already up.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you very much.

We'll move to Ms. Zarrilo from the NDP for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much, and thank you so much for coming here, and sharing your expertise on this.

We had some testimony earlier about getting ready for the Olympics. I know there is a program in Canada called Own the Podium. When the Minister of Sport was here a few meetings ago, I asked her specifically what the definition of excellence in sport was now. What are we striving for here, when we put kids in sport?

My question is really about the compatibility of a safe sport and a mission like Own the Podium. Are they compatible? That's my first question.

[Suzanne Paulins]

I think they are compatible. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. On excellence, as we've seen with Own the Podium, yes, there are results, but there's the other side of it. I know Own the Podium is introducing an integrated wellness plan, where it's looking at more than just the medal count. There are other aspects of the sport that are important, and it's looking to the national sport organizations to be able to deliver on those aspects. It's looking at putting the athlete at the centre of a decision that isn't only about performance. Is it important? Absolutely, but is it the only thing? No.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you for that.

Just thinking a little bit out loud, I think that Own the Podium has over 25 people named on their leadership team.

What is connection between Swimming Canada and Own the Podium?

Is there any coordination, communication, financial support?

What is the connection?

[Suzanne Paulins]

I'll answer in my limited ability given that I'm one week into the CEO role. I may not have all of the nuances, but there are frequent touchpoints and communication between Own the Podium and Swimming Canada. There are presentations that must be completed by our high-performance team with Own the Podium semi-annually, where we're reporting on our activities and what we are doing, including from the performance side, but also on the mental health and athlete wellness side of things.

There are finances. I don't have those in front of me to be able to answer that.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I will continue on the finance theme.

Back in October 2022, the Minister of Sport put forward, it looks like, $7.5 million in funding for Swimming Canada for 2022-23, including $40,000 for safety in sport.

I'm just wondering if any of that $40,000 has been spent and if you could share with us how some of that $7.5 million is being spent.

[Suzanne Paulins]

I don't have all of the specifics on the $7.5 million. A lot is reference funding for our high-performance athletes in their preparation for the Olympics and Paralympics. There will be their travel to competition to cover. There will be the coaching salaries. Our high performance centres are wrapped up in part of that.

From a safe sport perspective, that $40,000 is used to help to support our safe sport coordinator, our safe sport independent officer, as well as the different activities that we are doing, like our safe sport campaign now and also our work with the provinces.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm going to wrap up with a final question that might be a little related to this.

You opened by saying that you've got a vision or a mission, from education to response. This is a new area. I wonder if you could just share with this committee what falls into the response category and what things you think have changed over the years that would make the response portion so important

I think one of the things that we've heard around this committee is that there doesn't seem to be action when there are complaints, that when athletes come forward with abuses and issues, there hasn't been an adequate response.

What's falling into that category?

What is the thought behind that?

[Suzanne Paulins]

I think from a Swimming Canada perspective our response has been our independent third party and the accountability and tracking we have put towards that independent third party. I think there's education and awareness as well of what our process is, what the complaint process is, from a national perspective, and then jurisdictionally what could it look like provincially as well as then from a club perspective.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

When you were answering I was thinking also about reports on a gender split and across the gender spectrum.

Does Swimming Canada collect that information by gender on the gender spectrum and by type of complaint?

Is that information collected that way and could you share it?

[Suzanne Paulins]

To my knowledge, we are not collecting it in a gender-based way, no. Collecting complaints based on gender is not something we have looked at.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay.

Sport, especially young sport, over-indexes for girls when swimming first starts. Does that remain as you get into more competitive sport?

[Suzanne Paulins]

I think we're quite evenly split in swimming. There might be a 60% to 40% split. I just don't have the numbers to be able to say accurately what our split is in gender terms with our athletes at this time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Okay.

Thank you for that.

We would like to do some committee business. It shouldn't take long.

What is the wish of the committee? Should we do it in public or in camera?

Yes, Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I think as a matter of timing, it may take too long to switch us all over to a separate meeting. If it's quick, it can be in public. We're fine with that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

In public is fine, yes. Good.

In the second round seeing that we're short on time, I'm going to award each party two and half minutes.

Ms. Thomas, we'll start with you for two and half minutes. You're down from five; I've cut your turn in half arbitrarily.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Ms. Paulins, earlier in January, you had an interview with CBC, and in that interview were some comments with regard to OSIC. You commented on the fact that it would help a very small number of athletes. You expressed some concern with regard to the program.

Simultaneously, of course, the organization that you represent signed off on OSIC in January 2023, and there's a statement on the website that speaks of it as something positive. There seems to be simultaneously some concern with regard to OSIC and whether or not it will get the job done, but also, I would imagine, probably some pressure both publicly and based on funding to sign off on it.

I'm wondering what those concerns are and how you align them with the fact that it's been signed off on.

[Suzanne Paulins]

I think the OSIC office is a step. It's a part of our process; it's part of our tool kit. It is geared toward, from a Swimming Canada perspective, our participants who are at the national level, whom we've identified at the national level. It's a small percentage of our overall membership, so when we look at what is needed from a provincial and a club perspective, there's more there that is needed, and it's how we do that. How do we support the club in their safe sport complaints they may have and navigating that when they are volunteer boards with no time? They're certainly not independent, because they're all parents of the swimmers who are in the pool. I think that's where the gap potentially lies. How do we get down to that level and ensure that coordinated approach?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

It's really getting down to that grassroots level, particularly within provincial bodies or local swim bodies. I've got it.

I'm curious, and this question is a follow-up to my colleague Mr. Housefather. One question he put forward to you in the limited time was about non-disclosure agreements. Has Swimming Canada ever required their athletes to sign a non-disclosure agreement? Has that ever been a requirement?

[Suzanne Paulins]

I am not aware that there has been a requirement for swimmers to sign a non-disclosure agreement. There have been examples out of a disciplinary process where all parties with legal representation have agreed to confidentiality, but I'm not aware that there's a broad-stroke NDA in place.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you. That's two and a half minutes.

We'll move to the Liberals and Mr. Bittle.

Go ahead, Chris.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you so much, and I'll pick up from there.

You said that you are not aware. Would you be willing to go back to your board and debate whether there are any NDAs and that athletes be released from them?