Canadian Heritage Committee on June 5th, 2023

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Yes, we could request one from Kelly and Jessica.

Thank you.

That will do for our first hour of safe sport. We're going to move into the second hour in a moment with Swimming Canada.

Thank you very much. We'll have a short recess and then we'll come right back.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I call the meeting back to order.

Welcome to the second hour.

We have just one guest for the second hour. From Swimming Canada, we welcome Suzanne Paulins.

Before we get into that, I would like to set aside maybe 10 minutes at about 12:50 to look at some committee business that we have here today, if that's okay with everyone. It will be a short 10 minutes.

I think, Ms. Paulins, you don't mind if we go into committee business at about 12:50. It still gives you a good 50 minutes to talk about Swimming Canada and your role.

You have five minutes to address this committee on safe sport. The floor is yours.

[Suzanne Paulins, Acting Chief Executive Officer, Swimming Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the invitation to appear today before this Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage and its study of safe sport in Canada.

As an introduction, my name is Suzanne Paulins. I'm the acting chief executive officer for Swimming Canada. I joined Swimming Canada six years ago as the senior manager, domestic operations, and then moved to the director of sport development role in October 2020. In March 2021, I took on additional responsibilities as director of operations and sport development, which I held until last week, when I stepped into the acting CEO role due to the personal medical leave of CEO Ahmed El-Awadi.

Prior to joining Swimming Canada in a staff position, I'd been involved in the sport of swimming since 1974. I swam competitively with my hometown club for approximately eight years. When my time as an athlete ended, my involvement in the sport of swimming did not. In 1987, I was a summer student intern with the provincial section, and then in 2000, when my then seven-year-old began competitive swimming with our local club, followed by her two brothers, I became involved in the sport again.

As my three swimmers developed within the sport, so did I. I was on our club board for 18 years, serving eight years as president. I was on the provincial section board for eight years and also became heavily involved in officiating swimming competitions, first locally, then moving to provincial and national competitions and, finally, receiving an appointment to the international FINA federation list as a referee in 2017.

The sport of swimming is a passion and has been for my entire life. My children are my “why”. My purpose from the beginning has been to ensure that we create and maintain an environment where everyone can enjoy the sport that means so much to me. My children, now adults, are all still involved in the sport, with one still competing and the other two working as coaches within a varsity environment.

I have seen and experienced the evolution of safe sport from the club level through to the provincial level and now at the national level. Many of the stories we've heard from athletes across the country from a variety of sports have been heartbreaking. We all have an obligation to do better: to work to create safe and inclusive environments where every participant at every level feels that they can participate in sports safely.

Swimming Canada has worked and will continue to work on creating and maintaining a safe and inclusive environment. Swimming Canada introduced safe sport initiatives in 2016, with the hiring of a safe sport coordinator and the introduction of our safe sport framework, which included the pillars of education, prevention and response, and the development of policies and procedures to support the framework. An independent third party was also introduced to manage safe sport complaints. Last month, Swimming Canada hired a director of people and culture, strengthening our commitment to people and culture in our sport.

Over the past six to seven years since the introduction of the framework, we have continued to try to build awareness in working with the provincial sections. Each provincial section is also building their safe sport framework.

We continue to learn and we continue to grow. We currently have a campaign via Twitter called “Safe Sport Monday”, where over the course of eight weeks we are raising awareness and educating our community on what safe sport is and sharing different aspects of safe sport, including open and observable environments, “See Something? Say Something”, and mental health.

Swimming Canada understands the need to hear the athlete's voice. Several members of the board were athletes, one as recently as six to seven years ago on the national team. We are also current rewriting our bylaws to formally include a retired athlete on the board, beginning in September. We have an active athletes council, one that includes current and former Olympic and Paralympic team athletes. Over the past several years, we have several examples of athlete well-being prioritized ahead of results.

Sport is an important fabric in the life of Canadians. Parents, athletes, coaches, officials, administrators, provincial sport bodies, national sport bodies and all partners have a part to play in making sport a safe place. Much has been done, and there is still much work ahead. Education and awareness across all levels are crucially important, as is a coordinated approach across all levels and through a central point of leadership.

To go back to my why, at its simplest, it is and was my kids, but it is more than that: It is the people, every person in our sport—all sports—and creating the environment where each and every one can enjoy a safe and inclusive experience.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Ms. Paulins.

We'll go around. The first round is six minutes.

I'm going to take the six minutes, if you don't mind, for the Conservative Party. I was just notified early this morning that I would be in this chair, but I have many questions for you.

Listening to your brief for five minutes, many families are like you and are waking up 3:30 or four in the morning to go to the pool. Mine was like that for several years.

With a year and a half out from the Paralympics and the Olympics in Paris, Ahmed El-Awadi had left the organization. Canada is, as you know, a powerhouse in swimming, so this is a red flag whether you like it or not. I know you've moved into that position after 45 years around the pool and the board table.

Can you reassure Canadians that Swimming Canada is ready for the Olympics? Certainly the qualifying times to qualify for Paris are coming up very shortly. Can you give us something in-depth on why Ahmed El-Awadi did leave at a time when usually you're preparing for your Olympic team?

[Suzanne Paulins]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the question.

Mr. El-Awadi is taking personal medical leave. It was for personal health reasons, and I think as an organization, both from the board and from the staff perspective, we fully support his well-being and the need for him to take the time he needed to be well. First and foremost, it is really important to understand that his health was number one.

Insofar as the preparation, I think one of the reasons I was appointed by the board into the acting role was to maintain that continuity. Being with the organization, and on the leadership team over the last several years, that was a conscious decision to protect and to ensure that the continuity of the organization was maintained in these last 14 to 16 months in preparation for the Olympics and the Paralympics. It was a conscious decision, and all of our decisions are around protecting and engaging our athletes, our coaches and our staff in the next 16 months.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

We have 50,000 swimmers in this country—350 clubs. You mentioned a national league, or talking to the provincial bodies. How, when we talk about OSIC and the safety of swimmers in this country....? We can talk about it at the national level—you're trying to give it the provincial level—but my concern is with the clubs. Many are not associated as much with provincial bodies and, thus, don't follow any of the safe-sport rules.

As you know, volunteers are hard to come by at any swim meet, and there are a number of small swimming clubs. How are we going to work this in with OSIC where it's top down and there are many small clubs? I look at my city, and the Saskatoon Lasers are a very small club. I'm not sure they have the capability to do safe sport.

[Suzanne Paulins]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

It is a concern from the club level up for certain. When you consider that clubs are run by volunteer boards, you see that they are parents who are working full-time in other jobs and have invested themselves in their children's sport to be a member of a board or to be supportive of the club.

In the provincial sections, all clubs need to comply with their provincial sport body insofar as the policies and the procedures that are in place at the provincial level are concerned. There are also national policies and procedures that each club must follow.

It is hard to reach down. It is hard to get all of the information to the club level. I think that is where the coordinated approach is going to be so important. There are different levels at play. Understanding and ensuring that the little club in Saskatoon, or wherever across the country, has the resources and that it understands where it can go to get the resources from the provincial level is really important.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I have two minutes left.

I talked to my son this morning. He swam for 14 years and he coached for five. It's one of the best sports in the world, he says, but it's not without its faults. Swimmers and coaches need protection and consistency across Canada.

He swam for 14 years and then coached right after that. Right away, private spaces was the main topic—going from a competitive swimmer to a coach. You're in a room with a swimmer now. As a coach...whoa, right? As you know, parents wear out coaches. I don't care what club in this country it is: parents wear out coaches. Coaches don't last. They get eaten up.

What are your thoughts on that?

[Suzanne Paulins]

I think part of the safe sport campaign we have right now is trying to educate and bring awareness. The open and observable environments are something Swimming Canada has built on from the “rule of two” that was introduced. Having open and observable environments means really creating those environments that are open, observable and interruptible for athletes, for coaches and for officials to protect anyone who is vulnerable. Open and observable environments are what we see as the way we see forward.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

With the change in coaches, my son went from 60 kilometres to 100 kilometres of swimming a week, and my son watched as several coaches “abused” women swimmers on the butterfly, because—guess what—they have problems with their shoulders. What can be done to improve that? All coaches want to get swimmers to the university level because it makes them look better.

Can you give us a quick answer, please?

[Suzanne Paulins]

I can certainly. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

We're currently in the midst of a project, with regard to our national coach certification program, to update all of our levels of certification and our educational content and material. I think ensuring that we are constantly doing those updates and upgrades to the content for our coaches' education is one way to address that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

My time is up.

We go to the Liberals.

Mr. Housefather, you're waiting patiently. Go ahead.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was fascinated by your questions, as I always am.

I'm going to start by disclosing my interest. I am a competitive swimmer. I have been since I was seven years old. I am a master swimmer now and affiliated with Swimming Canada. I was at swimming practice this morning, so, clearly, I have a particular interest in Swimming Canada.

I would note that it is somewhat odd that we have Swimming Canada here as opposed to Water Polo Canada or Artistic Swimming Canada, which represent the two sports in the water that we've actually had recent allegations about. When Ahmed was before the women's committee, all of the questions he got were about when he was at Water Polo Canada and the claims that had recently been made.

My questions are going to go in a bit of a different direction. They will be for Suzanne, who I know from Brantford and Western. My first question is about the allegations that have arisen out of the recent meet in Hungary after which Mary-Sophie Harvey was found in the streets. I know there was an investigation by FINA and by Swimming Canada. Has anything come out of that?

[Suzanne Paulins]

Thank you for the question.

Investigations were held both by FINA, which is now known as World Aquatics, and internally by Swimming Canada. Reports were made and Mary-Sophie, at the time, as you all know, was quite open and upfront and shared publicly her experience. She did that for herself and I think it was, for her, a way of moving through the process and sharing her experience, which is so important for anyone to do when they've had an experience such as that.

At this time, I have no further update with regard to an investigation except to say that one was completed and documents were filed, and there has been further outcome from that beyond what is publicly known.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Another question I have is on something I think we're both aware of from the time when we were competitive swimmers. I remember up until the time I started at college and even at college how a coach would take our body fat measurements on the deck, pinching people in front of everybody, and would make comments about people's weight, particularly to the women. There were, as Kevin mentioned, a lot of people with tendinitis and other swimming-related injuries, and we were basically encouraged to swim through the pain, which, as we know today is not the ideal way to keep people motivated to stay in the sport for the long term.

I'm wondering about the guidance Swimming Canada now gives in terms of training for coaches, not only certification but also ongoing training. How has that changed and what is Swimming Canada doing to make sure coaches have a better philosophy towards swimmers as we understand things today?

[Suzanne Paulins]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the question.

I didn't have that experience as a swimmer, thankfully. I can say that it wasn't my experience when I came up, so it's not something I'm familiar with. I'm thankful for that.

Now, coaches' education and ongoing professional development are crucially important. For our teams, from our high-performance centres to when we take a national team away, there are sets of protocols when it comes to that type of process with regard to calipers and weighing swimmers. That's voluntary. Someone can opt in. They don't need to be part of it if they choose not to be.

It can be used in a scientific way. When it's used in that way, there can be benefit to it. Again, it needs to be optional.

We also work really closely with a great group of integrated sports specialists through the CSI network, both in Ontario as well as Vancouver, as well as through the INS in Quebec. We're working with support specialists where this is their specialty. They're able to provide our coaches with very accurate, up-to-date information. Then we're able to share that beyond that network, down further to our coaches through different collaborations. We also work with the Canadian Swimming Coaches Association in developing, supporting and partnering with them on different educational professional development.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I have a last question, Mr. Chair, if I have any time left.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Yes, you have one minute.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you.

Number one, are there any open allegations that Swimming Canada is currently investigating?

Number two, are there any NDAs in place for former settlements at Swimming Canada, which would prevent anyone from disclosing what happened to them?

Finally, I'm sure you heard some of the testimony about what happened in hockey and soccer and about the fact that coaches were dismissed because of the complaints of sexual abuse and then they were allowed to go into another province and coach.

Is there any list at Swimming Canada that would be available to every club in the country to know what coaches have been banned or suspended for these types of allegations?

[Suzanne Paulins]

Thank you for the questions, Mr. Chair.

I'll do my best to answer that.

With regard to current allegations, historical cases are currently being worked through the process according to our policies and procedures, with independent discipline panels in place.

Since the introduction of OSIC, which Swimming Canada became a signatory to on January 12, Swimming Canada has itself referred three reports directly to the OSIC office—two in April and one last week. Based on the quarterly report that we received from OSIC as of March 31, one complaint was received by OSIC and closed by the OSIC office in that quarter ending March 31.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather and thank you for that, Ms. Paulins.

We'll move now to the Bloc for six minutes and Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm inspired by your testimony, Ms. Paulins, so let me mention some other good things that are happening in sport.

Through sport, our children can have fantastic experiences. I'd like to take a few seconds to congratulate my son Léon, who had a competition in Mont Tremblant on the weekend and set a national standard and a club record. Sports federations and sports clubs really contribute to the development of the athletes and human beings they are. I'd like to thank my son's coaches, especially Marco and Kim, from the Rouyn‑Noranda Dauphins swim club, CADAC. We're very proud of this success.

I think that, as part of a study on sport, we also need to talk about the good things that come out of it.

Ms. Paulins, I'd like to come back to the experience of the witnesses we heard from this morning, particularly on the issue of autonomy.

In your case, at Swimming Canada, the notion of autonomy refers to the ability of the national sport organization, as well as the body that represents it internationally, to make decisions independently of any political, economic or external influence. This ensures that athletes can compete on a level playing field without undue influence from foreign interests or external pressure, which is obviously desirable in the very spirit of sport.

Are you able to hold a swimming event that takes into account all of these aspects of human rights recognized by Canadian courts?

In that sense, on what scientific evidence is needed to base the most recent eligibility policy for swimming athletes, which will establish the definition of gender set by the Fédération internationale de natation? For example, how is the issue of transgender people integrated into sports such as swimming?

[Suzanne Paulins]

I believe the question was with regard to how Swimming Canada is approaching inclusivity and transgender swimmers at this time. As a member of World Aquatics, Swimming Canada is bound by the World Aquatics policies and procedures, as they relate to international competition. When we send a team to the Olympics, or the world championships, we will follow the rules of the policies that have been set for us by World Aquatics.

Domestically, Swimming Canada has had in our rule books, and as part of our policies and procedures for several years, the ability for athletes, swimmers, coaches and officials, to register in the gender with which they identify. Swimmers may register as they choose. In this past year, we added an additional option of gender identification.

In our sport, swimmers must choose either male or female in order to compete, but we've added an additional layer of optional information where we're capturing if they are cisgender, transgender, or non-binary. We've added that as an element to add a level of inclusivity. Our swimmers must compete as male or female. That is the way our sport is currently set up, but we added that additional element to allow for gender identification.

For our domestic swim meet competitions, swimmers may swim in the category with which they identify. That is how we've approached it at this time.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much. What you're saying is interesting, given Ms. Worley's experience and the way in which certain elements, scientific or not, have played out in a very arbitrary manner. I think you've raised some interesting points that reflect the evolution of sport.

I'd also like to talk about the role of independent third parties.

First, which firm represents Swimming Canada?

[Suzanne Paulins]

Our third party is Lise Mclean from Wiser Workplaces. She has been our independent third party for approximately five years.