Canadian Heritage Committee on June 8th, 2023

[Kim Taylor]

Right.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Wow.

[Kim Taylor]

There's a common phrase that players are called “suitcases”.

They talk about education being so important. They're picking up underage kids who are still in high school. If education is so important, then why are they trading kids who are still in high school?

For my son, they made him enrol in the school. There was an educational adviser there. However, if he had been traded that school year, that would have been a disaster. I mean, they're on these long road trips. They work for 40 hours a week. They really own you in every single way: public appearances, going to hospitals, going to the schools, autograph signings. I'm not saying that they don't enjoy those things. It's just that they're not mandatory. It's to make the CHL look good.

There's also another phrase known that sometimes the players say “thugs in suits”. They look really professional and honest on the outside, but on the inside, they're pretty brutal. There are times where players are walked down the hallway and they feel invisible. Coaches and staff will walk by them and not acknowledge them. There's a lot of cruel punishment.

They're called “interchangeable parts”. They've already made this level where they're at the top 2%. They know they're great hockey players. It's like splitting hairs: “You're just an interchangeable part at this time.” They have a way of making you feel worthless.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Coteau.

Now, Sébastien Lemire, you have two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Walter, do you feel that hockey is changing for the better these days? Or do you think that at the end of the day, the good commitments made by some leagues, particularly the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, are not translating to improvements in the locker room?

[Lukas Walter]

Truthfully for me, I haven't seen much change at all. At the end of the day, what is it? They're still making the same amount. There are the same problems, a.k.a. the sexual abuse problems, going on and all sorts of stuff. That was happening in my dad's time. You would think they would have learned from the whole instance in Moose Jaw way back in the day. Everyone knows that story.

Stuff continues to happen. That's why I truly believe there needs to be a third party involved in this, because how much longer is it going to continue to go on for? This has been going on since the seventies. It's 2023 now.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Gobeil, what do you think?

[Thomas Gobeil]

Thank you for the question.

It's a difficult question for us, given that it's already been a few years since we left that league. Personally, I am close with hockey players, having coached a hockey team last season and having also been a coach and physical trainer to several hockey players.

Within organizations, it's hard for me to say whether the relationship between people in positions of authority and youth has changed. From what I understand, and from discussions I've had with the hockey players I coach, there's still this kind of idolizing — not only of the coach and the members of the organization, but also towards the league. The kids don't seem to know that there are other options for them. They don't know where they can go to play to keep their dream of playing in the National Hockey League alive.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

So what you're recommending is that there should be changes in the education of hockey players, so that they're aware of all their rights in difficult situations, and of potential opportunities.

Is that it?

[Thomas Gobeil]

Yes, that's exactly it.

We also need to re‑examine the environment in which young people find themselves. Having lived it, I can say that it's difficult to play and have professional schedules, while at the same time having to meet academic performance expectations to the same degree as other students who aren't on the road and don't have to meet those additional expectations. It really is a lot of work. I believe that if the league's intention truly was to develop young people on a personal level, as students, like in school leagues, then there wouldn't be as many games or training sessions, and the workload would be smaller.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Monsieur Lemire.

I go to Peter Julian for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Walter, I want to come to you. You mentioned in your opening statement that you could cite examples of situations that might have been prevented or in which victims might have been supported had there been a third party investigation process in place. I'd like to give you the opportunity to talk about those examples now, if you're comfortable.

[Lukas Walter]

If you look at just his whole school thing, he had to quit school because they didn't even check in with the teachers. Thomas here had his injury. With a third party, he could have said, “Hey, what's going on?” He could have given them a call and said, “Can you make sure my school is covered and everything?” Obviously the team didn't do it for him, so there's one example right there.

There are other examples in terms of things like mental health issues. That's a horrible one. You would hate to see more players end up in bad situations—like while they're playing hockey and they get cut. There's been a bad example of that before. You know, a player gets cut and “screamed out” and then they have mental health issues and bad things happen. They do need a third party, even if it's ex-players, to talk to about situations and to get things done so that we don't lose people to mental health issues and substance abuse and all sorts of things. The list goes on and on.

Also, I'd like to say something to athletes about life after hockey. If I could say something to future athletes, it would be that at the end of the day, it's a game that we love to play. Throughout all of this, I haven't stepped foot on the ice since I've been done hockey and all that. It's become too much. People take it way off, and too many of these foul things happen, so that needs to just stop.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you for that.

We started this investigation a year ago. All of us had the intention, I think, of just having one or two meetings, and the deeper we've gone into examining the situation, particularly in hockey—it's our national winter sport—the more we have the understanding that major change has to happen and the federal government has to step up.

I'm going to Ms. Taylor.

You mentioned that there was retribution when your son stepped forward. Could you give us some examples, if you're comfortable, of that retribution that happened?

[Kim Taylor]

Well, he got cut. He didn't get cut per se right away. They sent him down and held onto his rights to punish him and said, “He needs to work on some things, and we're just going to park him down there and we'll bring him back up.” They didn't call his agent. They didn't call his parents. They didn't call his billet. The billet family is the surrogate family that loved him, that cried and that helped him.

They didn't ask him if he needed money to get where he was going. They didn't think about, “He's an American, so does he even know how to get to Canmore from Lethbridge?” Nothing.

I heard—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Thank you, Peter.

Finish your sentence, Ms. Taylor.

[Kim Taylor]

I don't know where I was.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You've already said that he was treated like a suitcase, really.

[Kim Taylor]

Yes.

They did release his rights and he did get picked up, but the damage was done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Peter.

I now go to Martin Shields.

Martin, you have five minutes, please.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here in person and telling your stories.

Ms. Lemay, we had a witness here from a women's group that works with the Alberta Junior Hockey League—same age as the young man—and they did sessions with all 16 teams. I've talked with the commissioner, who was also involved in those sessions. He said it was a fantastic program. You're looking for a program. There's a program. It's out there and it's working in junior hockey.

Have you had any knowledge of an NDA being used in any experience with hockey players, with sports?

[Mélanie Lemay]

You mean non-disclosure—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Right.