Evidence of meeting #88 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was athletes.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Don Adams  Chief Executive Officer, Sail Canada
Wendy Smith  Chair, Gymnastics Canada

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 88 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, as you know, pursuant to the House of Commons order of Thursday, June 23, 2022.

Now pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, September 20, 2022, the committee is meeting to continue its study on safe sport in Canada. We have the Honourable Kirsty Duncan with us for the first round.

Before that, if you don't mind, Ms. Duncan, we do have a little bit of budget to look at.

We have the request in front of us here. In order to conclude the study of safe sport in Canada, a supplementary budget was drafted and distributed to members on Wednesday. You did get this yesterday.

Is it the will then of the committee to adopt the supplementary budget in the amount of $6,250?

4:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

4:15 p.m.

The Chair

That's approved.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Go ahead, Ms. Gladu.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

I was just going to move approval of the budget.

Thanks, Chair.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Thank you.

We have some time restraints. What is the will of the committee?

I'm suggesting one round of six minutes for each party after Ms. Duncan's five-minute statement.

Is that okay with everyone? Then we'll go into hour two, and play it by ear.

Mr. Julian.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think that makes sense. I just wanted to make sure it was okay with Ms. Duncan as well.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Good.

Welcome, then, to the Honourable Kirsty Duncan.

To be honest with you, we're very happy to see you. I'm sure it took a lot of courage for you today to come to committee instead of joining us by video conference. Thank you for coming in person. We did hug you. We did have some conversation.

If you don't mind, the floor is yours now, Ms. Duncan, and you have five minutes, please.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee and colleagues. Thank you for the kind and warm welcome.

I want to thank you all for undertaking this important study.

I must also thank not only the extraordinary athletes who made the year 2022 the year of athlete advocacy and courageously came forward with their stories of abuse, but also the athletes and their families who have come forward over decades. We owe them our gratitude, and we must do everything in our power to address the many years of abuse and the entrenchment of that abuse—emotional, physical, psychological, sexual and verbal abuse.

Canada's national sport system was never built to protect athletes and young people. It was built to have fit men for war. After Canada “failed” to win a gold medal at the 1976 Montreal Olympics, sport changed in our country. We felt it across sport and right down to the club level. The goals had changed, and the goals were to compete for Canada and to win medals for the nation.

In the 1980s, some sports federations and coaches put the health, safety and well-being of athletes far behind winning. Athletes were experimented on. They inserted fake bladders with clean urine and young athletes injected older athletes between their toes with performance-enhancing drugs to hide the drug use. The 1988 Dubin inquiry into the use of drugs and banned practices exposed the extent of the rot and made dozens of recommendations, which government implemented and which made Canada a leader in the war against doping in sport.

We need that same leadership now. Our athletes should not have to beg, for over a year now, for us to do the right thing and move forward with an inquiry into an outdated sport system. In 1988, an inquiry was called in less than two weeks, and it cost $3 million.

My first recommendation is that the government hold an independent, comprehensive, systematic inquiry focused on the health, safety and well-being of athletes.

My second recommendation is that a systematic inquiry needs to start with the athletes, be trauma-informed and survivors must be fully empowered to speak their truths should they so choose.

In the 1990s, hockey player Sheldon Kennedy bravely came forward with revelations of years of sexual abuse at the hands of his junior coach. His story should have been a wake-up call to the Canadian hockey community and to the entire sport system. It wasn't.

I come at this discussion from the perspective of a high-performance athlete. As a gymnast, I did double back somersaults in the air from the floor. I ran the Boston Marathon many times, and I competed in half Ironmans. I have been a coach, a dance teacher and a judge throughout my life. As you know, I also served as the Minister of Sport, and I made safe sport my number one priority.

In the year I served as minister, I put in place the first broad strokes of a safe sport system, including a national helpline, a third party investigator, an agreement from every sport minister across Canada to make safe sport a priority, 13 safe sport summits, mandatory prevention training and funding, and the development of a coaching code of conduct.

With regard to my third recommendation, the spoken and unspoken rules of each sport, the power differentials that exist among the national sport organization—coach, trainer, medical support, members and others—and the concept of owning athletes and prioritizing winning championships over athlete health, safety and well-being need to be investigated.

My fourth recommendation is that Sport Canada's safe sport measures, accountability and financial instruments developed to ensure compliance need to be examined.

Fifth, national sport organizations and their collective power need to be investigated, as well as governance accountability and finances and how sport leaders circulated among NSOs and reinforced relationships and protections.

My sixth recommendation is that an inquiry review data on all forms of abuse in sport on a sport-by-sport basis.

My last and most important recommendation is that a thorough investigation be undertaken about whether cases of abuse were effectively resolved and perpetrators removed from the system, or were there passive enablers in place who protected the sport and the organization over the protection of young people?

The time is now for a national public inquiry. If Canada gets it right, we can better protect our athletes. We can also be a catalyst for a long-overdue global conversation on athlete health, safety and well-being, as we were in the aftermath of Dubin 35 years ago.

With your indulgence, Mr. Chair, I would like to say this very briefly to those who are living with cancer: Know that you're not alone and that I stand with you. I'm grateful for the life-saving medicine, science and compassionate and excellent care of our health care professionals.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Thank you very much.

We'll do just the one round. As you all know, we have a vote at approximately five o'clock, give or take—you know the House and how it operates. We'll go with a six-minute round. All four parties will have six minutes.

Ms. Duncan, if you want to make a closing statement after that, you're more than welcome to.

We'll start with the Conservative Party and Ms. Gladu on video conference.

Go ahead, Marilyn.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Duncan, for being here today.

You were the Minister of Sport. You were a gymnast, a coach and a judge in competitive sport. You have seen first-hand all of the abuse that we have been hearing about from athletes and organizations. You've been clear that you think we need a national public inquiry. What is your hope? What do you think we would get out of that inquiry?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Thank you, Ms. Gladu. I hear that congratulations are in order for you and your family on the birth of a new granddaughter.

I am hoping that with an inquiry we will see what we saw 35 years ago with the precedent set by former chief justice of Ontario Charles Dubin. He took a systematic approach. He left no stone unturned. He looked at everything—athlete rights, multiple sports, policies, procedures and finances. He exposed the rot and the extent of that rot. He made dozens of recommendations. The government chose which ones to implement. He opened the world's eyes to doping in sport.

I think we have an opportunity here, as hard as it will be. You folks have all done the hard work this last year, listening to these brave and courageous athletes come forward and hearing their stories. It's hard. These stories are decades old. This has been going on for decades. If we do not have an inquiry, we will not get to the bottom of this. In sport, abuse is decades old. It's entrenched. It's complex. In some cases, it's athletes who are abused and harassed by coaches and judges and other support staff. In other cases, it's athletes who become predators and assault those only tangentially linked to the sport system. In other cases, it's athletes abusing other athletes. It's complex.

The only way to get to this complexity is through a national public inquiry. I think we are finally at a moment in time where we cannot lose this moment. There is an understanding that this is a problem, and we cannot afford to fail our children. The time is now.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you, Ms. Duncan.

I think we were all shocked when we saw the Hockey Canada incident that came out five years ago. You had begun the very good work of putting into place a national helpline for sport to report abuse, third party investigators and a number of measures, but then the government decided to shut down the ministry of sport.

Now we're seeing that the government has not really embraced a national public inquiry. Why do you think that is?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

As you know, Ms. Gladu, I served as minister from 2018 to 2019. You're right that in 2019 the position of sport minister was eliminated. At that time, I did ask what we would be doing on safe sport going forward. I was told that we had to get back to what sport was really about. I said, “So not protecting children.”

I think what we've seen in the last few years is that athletes saw some momentum, but then there was a hiatus and there was frustration, rightly. Then 2022 was really the year of athlete advocacy.

What we've also seen through this committee is that there has been some absolute resistance to moving forward on safe sport initiatives. I can tell you that I faced it from Hockey Canada. There was resistance to moving forward with the helpline. I'm not sure why anyone would resist a helpline that athletes could call from across the country to say what their issue was.

There was also real resistance to the third party investigator.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Was the resistance from the government?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

This was actually, in some cases, from sport itself. The examples I'm giving you are from sport. What you have shown in this committee is that there has been real resistance to some changes in the sports system, and this is why your work and an inquiry going forward are so important.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

I appreciate, Ms. Duncan, the actions you have suggested, and certainly the committee will take those under consideration.

Is there anything else you would recommend the federal government do to address this long-standing abuse that we've seen in sport?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

The most important thing is to get a national public inquiry under way. Our athletes are asking for that. It's time we really listened to them. We hear what they say the issues are. It is important to ask hard questions, and we have to gather the data and the evidence.

Back in 1988 that investigation took less than a year, and we've lost a year of protecting athletes, so let's move forward with a national public inquiry that is trauma-informed.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you, Ms. Duncan.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

We'll move to the Liberal Party now and Lisa Hepfner.

Lisa, go ahead for six minutes.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, my colleague, Honourable Kirsty Duncan, for being here with us today.

You and I have spoken about these issues already, and I know that when you were named Minister of Sport, the key thing in your head was that it was about children. It was about protecting children, and they were always foremost in your mind.

You taught children. You were a dance teacher to children. That was your whole world.

You have talked to us a little bit about the things you, as sports minister, implemented. Tell us a bit more about those and about how you kept children and protecting children in the forefront the whole time.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Thank you, Ms. Hepfner. You and I have talked long about these issues.

Outside of teaching at the university, my life was coaching and teaching dance. My whole life was devoted to young people. I really believe that every athlete should go to practice excited and looking forward to practice, to being in the gym, on the field or on the rink, and that they should look forward to being physically fit, to being trained by good coaches who want to develop good athletes and good people, and that they should enjoy sport and share the love of sport.

I also know the darker side of sport. While I have not experienced the horrific abuse that you have heard about at this committee, I am a former gymnast and I know what it's like to be told to eat Jell-o, laxatives, toilet paper and water pills, and what it's like to be weighed and shamed. I wanted to do everything so that no young person would ever face that going forward. That's why I said that my number one priority was ending abuse and having safe sport, and I said to the sport community and to officials that we are drawing a line in the sand and the days of hear no evil, see no evil in sport are over. We have a duty of care to our athletes, and we need to make it easier for athletes to come forward. There is a responsibility to get the perpetrators and the enablers out of the system.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON

Would you tell us what it's been like for you to watch these committee hearings over the past year and hear the sorts of testimonies that we've heard at this committee?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

I really want to thank this committee for their work and for what you've been hearing. It's hard to hear.

For some of us who grew up in a broken system, these stories.... The system was never built to protect athletes. It was about winning medals and international competitions, and then you had some sport federations turning a blind eye to the abuse that was happening. I'd talk about steroid abuse, for one.

I think about Sheldon Kennedy coming forward. This is decades of abuse. Now is the time to give our athletes the space to ensure that an inquiry is trauma-informed and that we listen, we hear their issues, we get as many recommendations as we can and we build a safe sport system going forward.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON

It's complicated, as you well know as former minister, because a lot of these abuses are happening at the local level or at the provincial level.

What do you think the role of the federal government is in this?