Canadian Heritage Committee on June 15th, 2023

[Don Adams]

It was true that she told us she was pregnant, and we did the formal termination, but the decision to terminate Lisa was made in February.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I saw that. Who was the lawyer you consulted in February to discuss her termination?

[Don Adams]

We consulted two. The one I consulted first was a female Ontario lawyer. She said that because this contract was negotiated with Lisa—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

In Nova Scotia...so, you needed to discuss it with a Nova Scotia lawyer.

[Don Adams]

Then we found a Nova Scotia lawyer, Megan Thompson, another female.

We have records to show that as of.... I contacted her on February 17. She gave me—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I understand. I get it. I saw your statement that you spoke to a lawyer before. It was Megan Thompson in Nova Scotia.

After you were informed that she was pregnant, did you reconfirm with the lawyer who you talked to in Nova Scotia that the termination remained permissible, given that discrimination based on pregnancy is a violation of the Human Rights Act, etc.? Did you reconfirm with your lawyer that she could be terminated at that point?

[Don Adams]

I did. Because we had already made the decision and it was for financial reasons, we were told that we still had the right to terminate that position because there was no funding for that position, and we didn't have the funding in our budget.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thanks.

Would you just give us, in writing, the funding information so that we could better understand that?

[Don Adams]

Sure. I can do that.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I think, Mr. Chair, my time is probably up.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I can give you a little more time. Go ahead, Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is my last question on that.

You understand, of course, it's not that Sail Canada has many allegations against it, and I don't want to, again, make allegations. For all of my understanding, you're a very well-run sports federation for the size that you are.

I do think that, of course, symbolically, this was a major issue. I encourage your board to look at the question of having a woman coach for high-performance athletes and to look at how you might be able to reverse the bad publicity you got with that decision.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather.

We'll go to Mr. Lemire for six minutes from the Bloc party.

We welcome Mr. Vis for the Conservatives, who is joining us now.

Go ahead, Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I have a point of order concerning Ms. Smith.

I would like to know why Gymnastics Canada refused to give us a copy of the report on the inquiry conducted by the Shearer Parnega law firm, which was submitted to the organization in April or May of 2018.

Gymnastics Canada was ordered to give us a copy and must do so. I call on Ms. Smith to submit to the clerk, before the end of the day tomorrow, a document with the sections she would perhaps like to see redacted. Agreements exist for that. The document must be submitted to us as soon as possible. This procedure must be respected; lawyers are usually familiar with it.

Ms. Smith, I appreciate your collaboration in this matter.

As for my turn to speak, Mr. Chair, I would like to ask Ms. Smith questions on the role played by Karl Balish within Gymnastics Canada.

[Wendy Smith]

The role of what...?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I am speaking about the role Karl Balish played.

[Wendy Smith]

Previously, Karl worked as.... I believe he was a high-performance director at Gymnastics Canada.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We were made to understand that Karl Balish had allowed coach Scott McFarlane to rejoin Gymnastics Canada. This person worked with athletes, despite having been fired from Tumblers Gymnastics Centre because of inappropriate behaviour toward a 13‑year‑old girl. He was subsequently arrested.

Mr. Balish also chose Dave Brubaker, Alex Bard and Michel Arsenault to lead national women's teams, from setting up the team to the coaching of an experienced team. Mr. Brubaker and Mr. Arsenault were arrested in December 2017. As for Mr. Bard, he was fired because of concerns regarding his behaviour toward female athletes and players. The CEO at the time, Peter Nicol, would have been informed of these problems, but chose to do nothing.

Why are things done this way at Gymnastics Canada?

[Wendy Smith]

Mr. Arsenault is currently suspended as a coach from Gymnastics Canada and in Alberta where he resides.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would like you to tell us about the role of Ms. Gretchen Kerr, who was working for Gymnastics Canada as the athletes' well-being counselor. Many gymnasts informed us that Ms. Kerr ignored complaints about abuse and other problematic situations.

What was Ms. Kerr's role at Gymnastics Canada?

[Wendy Smith]

Dr. Kerr previously worked as a case manager. She also worked in other volunteer situations in Gymnastics Canada. She is currently not doing any work for Gymnastics Canada as a volunteer or as a paid person.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Is she still an employee of Gymnastics Canada?

[Wendy Smith]

No. She is not an employee of Gymnastics Canada.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I was given to understand that she had resigned. Why did she resign?

[Wendy Smith]

I don't know if Dr. Kerr has been an employee of Gymnastics Canada. She was not an employee when I joined the board. She is not currently an employee.

As I said, she had done volunteer work in the past. She has worked as a case manager, and I do not know whether or not that work was paid, but she is not an employee of Gymnastics Canada.