Canadian Heritage Committee on June 15th, 2023

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

All right. We'll do that. Thank you, everyone.

You have six minutes, Mr. Julian. The time is yours.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Ms. Duncan, it's so good to see you. We miss you. We wish you all the best and a speedy recovery. Thank you for being with us today.

I want to talk to you about what you endeavoured to bring to the sports ministry. We came into this study looking initially at just Hockey Canada, and then, over the course of the past year, the further we looked, the more serious things became. I note that you really made a serious attempt to address these issues well before they were part of the public domain. I thank you for that.

I want to quote from CBC news going back to January 27. You said, to quote the article, that the government failed to build momentum behind your efforts to prevent harassment, abuse and discrimination, and you even faced “push-back” from people within your own government when you made tackling abuse a top priority in your time as sports minister.

Could you describe that a little bit more? You've talked about NSOs and their push-back. Could you talk a bit more about push-back from the government?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Julian, for your kindness. It's good to see all of you too. It's nice to be back with you.

To your point, it has been sport's dirty secret for decades. This was not a well-known issue unless you came from sport or had lived through this. For some people who were from sport, they felt that my doing safe sport could damage sport. We saw this back in 1988. There were people who thought that the Dubin inquiry would damage sport, but sport continued. The Paralympics and Olympics continued. Sport got stronger. Our athletes were stronger because of that inquiry.

I think there has been fear in some corners about going forward with a national public inquiry because it could damage sport, but I think we have a real opportunity here. Yes, it's going to be hard. This past year has been hard. It's been really hard. You're going to hear, whoever does the inquiry, should there be one, more hard stories, but ultimately sport will be better for it.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You mentioned that, when you first really undertook these efforts, there were some voices saying let's get back to what sport is really about. You also mentioned in your testimony that the sports system was never built to protect athletes.

If you were sports minister today, what would you change? Having the wealth of that experience and knowing the push-back from within your government but also from within sports organizations, how would you change the approach as sports minister so that we could really ensure safety for all athletes and for the public?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

I have to recognize that we do have a sports minister. I am grateful that she actually brought safe sport back onto the agenda. It had disappeared. She brought it back, as has this committee.

I can only talk about my time when I served in the role. As I said, it was difficult. It's not easy to start a new national conversation about things that have been taboo for far too long. It's been taboo to talk about how athletes have been treated as chattel and commodities whose main purpose was to win a medal, and preferably a gold medal. These were taboo subjects.

I really feel that we are at a moment in time. It has taken time to get here. The work you have done has really elevated this conversation. This is the time. We cannot afford to lose this moment. Our athletes are waiting. They've been waiting for 50 years.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You followed the hearings with Hockey Canada, but we've also seen other national sports organizations, like Soccer Canada, where there were significant resignations from some of the individuals who may have helped to perpetuate the system you're speaking about.

What is your reaction when you see, for example, at Hockey Canada, the board of directors and the CEO resigning? What does that tell you about where we're going?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

We have a well-known hockey coach here and a much-loved hockey coach. I'd like to recognize that.

When I met with Hockey Canada, I addressed hard issues with them. I addressed not only abuse, but I also addressed lack of funding for women in hockey. I addressed the lack of funding for persons of all abilities in hockey. I was clear at the time: The culture of entitlement and toxic masculinity is not new in hockey in Canada.

When I was an athlete, in my teenage years and early twenties, we heard about the Junior A hockey players and the drugs and alcohol away from the arena. We heard, and pardon my language, the bragging about how many “puck bunnies” some guy bagged on the weekend. Where were the adults in charge? Where were the leagues, the provincial and national associations, demanding of their members principles of common decency?

I think that Hockey Canada has failed over and over to see the abuse, discrimination and harassment in hockey and to take sufficient action on issues that have played out over decades in the media.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Thank you, Ms. Duncan.

Did you want to say anything to wrap up here? We normally don't do this, but in this case I'll make the exception.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Waugh. I will take one minute.

Thank you for the warm welcome back. I have missed you all.

I want to recognize all of you and the work you have done over the last year to elevate this long-held dirty secret in sport and make it a national issue. It is because of your efforts that we have reached a moment in time where we can't afford to wait. Our athletes are begging us, saying that we need this national public inquiry. Some of them have spoken out to committees.

Let's all work together. There's an opportunity here to change sport in this country and to start a global conversation around athlete health and safety. I thank you all.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

We thank you. If we were all judges, we'd probably give you a 10 here today.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

For committee members, we're going to have a short turnaround, if we can. We're going to hear from Sail Canada and Gymnastics Canada. I think we can get that in before the vote at 5:15.

We'll make it a quick two-minute or three-minute turnover, and we'll hear from our second panel. They're both by video conference. Thank you.

We'll be back in about two or three minutes.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Committee members, we have about 10 to 15 minutes before we have to vote.

We'll start with Sail Canada first. We'll give them five minutes—Don Adams, the chief executive officer, and Hugh McGugan, the chair of Sail Canada.

Don and Hugh, welcome to the heritage committee. You have five minutes. I don't know how you're going to split it up, but after five minutes I'll interject and then we'll go to Gymnastics Canada and Ms. Smith.

Mr. Adams and Mr. McGugan, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Don Adams, Chief Executive Officer, Sail Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to speak on behalf of Sail Canada, at least in the opening remarks.

Thank you for this invitation today. Thank you for the work this committee is doing to create a better safe sport system. Thanks to Honourable Minister Duncan for leading this process and getting it under way. Her leadership within the sport community has been critical. This is a very important topic for us to address.

Sail Canada was established over 90 years ago. We've always been a driver in developing safe sailing practices in Canada. We welcome Canadians of all ages, all abilities and all interests, from recreational sailing to competitive sailing. Our tag line is “Sail for All, Sail for Life, Sail to Win”. We're very proud of our world-class athletes, but we're also very proud of every other sailor within the system. We have, over time, achieved nine Olympic and Paralympic medals.

Sail Canada works with 380 independent member organizations from coast to coast, including provincial sailing associations, sailing clubs, schools and class associations, each with unique needs and each committed to providing a safe sailing experience.

On the competitive side, the international racing rules of sailing have always emphasized reporting and disciplinary actions for maltreatment in sport, including penalties as far-reaching as lifetime bans from the sport. Sail Canada feels it is a leader in safe sport. We were charting the course of best practices even before we signed on with the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner last December.

In following Minister Duncan's lead, we have taken her recommendations seriously. We modified our harassment, bullying and discrimination policy in 2019. The same year, Sail Canada formed an inclusivity, diversity and equity committee. It also created policies to address that area.

We've also, under Minister Duncan's lead, created the hotline. We hired an independent third party investigator. A lot of work is being done in this area, but obviously a lot more can be done.

Sail Canada is an international safe sport leader. Recently we witnessed some world sport federations making decisions, including hosting competitions in countries that do not protect all communities. Sail Canada took action and sent a letter to World Sailing. We called upon them to ensure that we are working together to support, protect and include all communities that take part in sailing competitions.

Sail Canada supports the federal government's push for better safe sport environments, and last December Sail Canada announced that it would be one of the first to join the abuse-free sport program. We signed in December and put that in place on March 1.

Sail Canada went beyond the requirements of the Government of Canada in terms of scope. We worked with our provincial partners to create a harmonized safe sport policy for the whole sailing community and not just those at the national level. Sail Canada hired a safe sport officer to update and implement our safe sport package and to work with and assist our provincial partners, sailing clubs and schools in implementing these policies.

Sail Canada requires all staff, national community volunteers, certified officials, certified registered coaches and instructors, and all participants of Sail Canada regional and national championships to consent to our new code of conduct and the UCCMS and to be subject to OSIC if a complaint is lodged.

Sail Canada has set the tone for safe sport training across the country, for years providing seminars about safe sport to staff, volunteers, officials, and provincial sailing association staff and presidents. We require all staff, instructors, coaches and officials to complete safe sport training.

We recently presented a three-hour training session, which included participation by our national team athletes, development squad coaches and support staff, at which they focused on how to protect themselves from any safe sport issue and how to file a complaint if they felt they were being abused in any way. As of today six provincial sailing associations—not including Quebec, which has its own system—have passed the safe sport policy package and are in the process of rolling it out to their member organizations. Over half of the member clubs and schools have adopted safe sport policies, and the rest are working to do so.

There's still a lot of work to do to make sure safe sport objectives are efficient, attainable and able to guarantee an environment free of harassment, abuse and any other harmful conduct. We see that the following key objectives will ensure success for all NSOs.

First is to ensure there is a harmonized safe sport system in place for the whole system—at the club, provincial and national level—to avoid duplication and confusion with regard to which system is to respond, depending on the jurisdiction.

Second is to support sporting coordination from all levels of government—Minister Duncan referred to this, in terms of the Red Deer agreement—to achieve these safe sport objectives.

Third is to conduct cultural audits to confirm the effectiveness of our system and explore opportunities for improvement—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Can you wrap it up, Mr. Adams? You're past five minutes.

[Don Adams]

Sure.

All national sporting associations need to work together to get more women and other marginalized groups involved in sport.

Finally, all sports need the support of the federal government to deliver on these objectives, support our Olympic hopefuls, increase diversity and welcome the various diverse groups into the sport.

Thank you for your indulgence, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Mr. Adams, thank you very much.

I'm going to move on.

Wendy Smith, welcome to the heritage committee. You're late coming in, but the technical staff would like to see whether the audio is okay. I'm going to shut my mike off. They're going to ask you a few questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

We have a vote coming up in about six and a half minutes, Ms. Smith, but you're only going to get five minutes. We're going to suspend for the vote, and then come back after the vote and have questions and answers.

You have five minutes to talk about Gymnastics Canada. The floor is yours.

[Wendy Smith, Chair, Gymnastics Canada]

Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to you regarding the very important topic of safety in sport.

My name is Wendy Smith. I'm the newly selected chair of the board of directors for Gymnastics Canada.

GymCan is fully committed to providing a safe sport environment that is inclusive and free from maltreatment, discrimination and potential harm for all of our community—most importantly athletes, but also including coaches, judges, administrators and volunteers. Providing a safe experience is viewed not as an option but a necessity to ensure a positive environment for the growth of athletes and other participants.

To that end, GymCan has made a number of changes in the past several years to address safe sport matters in a more coordinated and transparent manner. Specifically, GymCan has worked with our provincial and territorial organizations to update and align all safe sport policies and procedures. We've implemented a reciprocity agreement across the country to ensure that all member provincial and territorial gymnastics associations are reporting and sharing information related to the outcome of safe sport complaints. This includes the publication of a suspended or expelled members list.

We've collectively worked with other sports leaders, the SDRCC and Sport Canada toward the implementation of independent case management systems across the country. We've worked together with our provincial and territorial partners on safe sport education initiatives at all levels of the sport.

At the national level, GymCan has signed on to the OSIC abuse-free sport agreement, which provides for a nationally coordinated and fully independent complaint management process. We've identified a full-time staff role dedicated to leading safe sport programming. We've hired Dr. Kacey Neely, who is an individual with significant experience and knowledge in the area of safe sport, to fulfill this role. Dr. Neely has a proven ability in the improvement of safe practices and safe environments.

We've initiated meetings and educational webinars for all national-level participants, which focus on a greater awareness of a safe and welcoming sporting environment. This education is ongoing and is being expanded to include administrators and officials.

We've continued to update our policies and procedures as they relate to the implementation of all safe sport programming, including case management. We've signed on to the true sport movement, which promotes fairness, inclusion, excellence and fun in all sporting activities.

We've worked closely with the Coaching Association of Canada in updating our coach education materials to properly reflect the latest safe sport research and methodologies. We've engaged the McLaren group to provide an independent review and a cultural review road map for gymnastics. We've reviewed and structured our internal practices, from hiring to evaluations to relationship with the community.

We have implemented many of Minister St-Onge's recently announced measures for accountability—specifically but not limited to board diversity, term limits, athlete inclusion and financial transparency.

GymCan is dedicated to separating the past from the future to make sure that history doesn't repeat itself. In addition to the previously mentioned actions, GymCan is recruiting a new board that is designed for changing the future, with an emphasis on change management, communications and strategy and with the intent to support both the sport and the business of gymnastics. We're in the process of hiring a new CEO with experience in strategic change and a demonstrated ability in implementing cultural change. We're embarking on addressing the McLaren group's report recommendations.

Finally, GymCan would welcome a public inquiry into safe sport practices in Canada. At the current time, national sports organizations are undergoing significant change to address safe sport practices and culture. However, these changes are happening largely in silos, with little shared experience among the sports. A national public inquiry would help to align sports organizations and leverage learnings and effective policies to hasten the improvement of all sports environments.

Thank you once again for the opportunity to address this committee.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Ms. Smith, along with Mr. Adams and Mr. McGugan.

Here's the procedure we have now. We are going to vote virtually in the House of Commons, so we'll do it right here, but we need to suspend for about 20 minutes. I wish for you to stay on because when we're done and wrapped up after the vote count, we'll come back right away and start our six-minute rounds of questions with the Conservatives, Liberals, Bloc and NDP.

We'll suspend the meeting, if we can, for about 20 minutes or however long it takes the House of Commons to count the votes. Thank you very much. We'll suspend now.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

All right. Our votes have been counted.

We have decided to do one round with Sail Canada and Gymnastics Canada. We'll start with the Conservatives for six minutes with Rachael Thomas or Richard Martel.

I think you're going to split it, so away you go. You have six minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

In the interest of time here, my first question is going to go to Ms. Smith.

Ms. Smith, I'm curious. Of course, we know that there were some pretty significant allegations that came against Scott McFarlane, a coach for Gymnastics Canada. That happened in 2018. He was charged. We know that he was acquitted; nevertheless, there were significant allegations that were brought against him.

He's not the only one. There's a whole history of allegations being brought forward against Gymnastics Canada and the way that abuses have taken place and the way that complaints have been handled, so my curiosity is this. As an organization that receives substantial funding from Sport Canada, I'm wondering if there's ever been a phone call from them or accountability in any way when these complaints have come forward from athletes.

[Wendy Smith]

I'm sorry. I'm not sure what the question was.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

When complaints come forward from athletes, such as a letter being written or a news article being published with regard to Gymnastics Canada and abuses that are taking place within the organization, has your organization ever received a phone call or any accountability from Sport Canada?