Canadian Heritage Committee on Sept. 28th, 2023

[Patricia Bovey]

If I may jump in, yes, that's an inclusive list of art forms and, as we know, art forms always change. Digital art is absolutely critical. There are printmakers who engage in digital forms. You have photography there. You have videography. You have filmmaking. I think it's all implied and all included in what's there, if I may. Absolutely, digital creation is critically important. Also, it's picked up by people of all generations. It's absolutely inclusive.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Excellent.

I'd like to build on the comments from Martin Champoux, because yes, absolutely, we want to see the French language represented. However, as with other discussions at this committee, we want to be inclusive, as well, of indigenous languages, and perhaps there are languages that would reflect the diversity of Canada.

If there is an amendment that would go in, perhaps it could be something that would say “in languages that reflect the diversity of Canada” so that we capture official languages as well as indigenous languages and other languages in which art may happen, such as films, etc.

Mr. Aldag, do you have a comment on that?

[John Aldag]

I think that's a very fair consideration, and I hope you discuss it when you get to reviewing the bill.

When I looked at sponsoring it from the Senate, I took it in its existing form. I do liken it to a bill I took through the House in the 42nd Parliament related to the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada and how commemorations of persons, places and events of national significance happen. In that case, we were looking at changing the board composition to include one first nations representative, one Métis representative and one Inuit representative.

I think that through the senator's comments we already have indigenous representation through the appointments into these positions. However, that is, I think, a bit of a concern. You could have indigenous languages or indigenous persons not represented, depending on how that appointment process.... I hope we would never have the absence of French. It does open a bit of a hole in how we make sure that inclusivity is part of this.

Therefore, I would welcome any debate you could have on that point and for you to see if you can strengthen the bill from that perspective.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Very good.

I would not be a prudent Conservative if I didn't ask the cost-benefit question. For this role, we have the poet laureate, and he or she gets a salary, a certain travel budget and a budget to do his or her work. Is the thought that this individual is going to get a similar salary or a similar budget? It's not in the bill. I guess that's my question, because that's on the cost side.

On the benefit side, I remember being at a dinner where the poet laureate was introduced. I'm on the heritage committee, and I have no idea what the poet laureate has actually done for poetry in Canada. We should be receiving something like that. What kind of benefits or updates should we expect from this role?

[Patricia Bovey]

Do you want me to weigh in? I would be happy to.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Sure, Senator.

[Patricia Bovey]

One of the big benefits is going to be the work that's created, which will go into the Library of Parliament and become a tangible aspect of the heritage of Parliament itself. This is an amendment to the bill so, as we understood it to be and were assured it would be, it's as per the poet laureate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

You have 15 seconds, Marilyn. Do you have anything you want to do in 15 seconds?

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I'll just say thank you. I do think we need to be concerned about the budget, because art can be quite expensive. I think there needs to be some parameters there.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I now go to the Liberals for five minutes and Michael Coteau.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to both of our presenters today. Senator, thank you for being here.

The first question is whether there were other jurisdictions around the world that you looked at to get some ideas on what this position would entail. Either of you may answer.

[Patricia Bovey]

If you're asking me, the answer is yes. I've looked at various countries. I've looked at the States. I've looked at children's drawing laureates. I've looked at the City of Toronto. The City of Victoria did a wonderful one for Canada 150. They actually had two indigenous visual artist laureates to celebrate Canada 150.

Yes, I've looked at many and looked at both the tangible effects and the longer-term and maybe not as immediately tangible effects, and they're very strong.

There is one laureate in Britain who was the children's laureate, and he drew. He got kids reading. He got kids drawing. He got an engagement, and some school divisions that monitored it recognized an improvement in the kids' learning abilities.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I noticed in the actual bill it's a two-year timeline.

Why is it two years versus four years or whatever?

[Patricia Bovey]

It's because we were doing this as an amendment with the poet laureate, which has a two-year time frame. The idea is rotating different ideas and different perspectives so that it has multiple voices and multiple approaches.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I like that idea.

You wouldn't see the person being reappointed. It would be more a matter of changing it to better reflect the country and the different regions with diversity.

[Patricia Bovey]

Yes.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

That's great.

Did you get a lot of support from the arts sector? What were some of the notable names, comments or perspectives that were shared with you in regard to this initiative?

[Patricia Bovey]

I've had huge support from artists in all disciplines—visual arts disciplines and other disciplines. They understand the international linguistic power of the visual arts, which transcends words. That's been very much recognized.

Quite honestly, they say, if Parliament can support this, they feel it will really help the moral support for the arts across this country. They're looking forward to being able to engage. They often feel cut off from Parliament. Through this process, there's been an engagement that I feel has been very enriching from coast to coast to coast.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I noticed that there was a trend provincially in different provincial legislatures to bring in poet laureates because of the initiative that took place here federally.

Did you get any indications from any provincial jurisdictions that this was something that they would be interested in? Is this the first, or are there any other provinces that have this type of position?

[Patricia Bovey]

Some of the arts councils do. Several cities do, but this is the first for Canada this way. I've had people tell me from very.... I have been meeting with some of the provincial art councils in the last few months. They're looking at this as artists in residence.

We have galleries and museums across the country. We have dance communities who are beginning to think of visual artists in residence, so I'm seeing this as a bringing together of what used to be seen as silos of expression, because all the arts together express the soul of who we are.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Senator, I want to thank you personally.

I'm a big supporter of the arts. I think art, in general, allows people to connect. It provides support,. It builds community. Even the economic development aspect of it is quite remarkable across this country.

I just want to say thank you to both of you for bringing this initiative forward. I think it's something that I support, and I'm sure many members on this committee support. Thank you for your hard work and dedication to building a better country.

[Patricia Bovey]

I thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We now go to the Bloc Québécois for two and a half minutes with Martin Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I'll be brief, Madam Chair.

I thought the study of the bill would be easy and that everyone would agree to pass the bill. After listening to the discussions, though, I realize that there are some interesting points to be raised.

Earlier, Ms. Gladu raised the issue of the budget that would be allocated. There are all kinds of visual arts and disciplines. Production costs won't be the same from one work to the next. If I'm selected for the parliamentary visual artist laureate position, you can be sure that I will be a marble sculptor. What's more, I'm going to make sure that I make a 20‑metre-high sculpture in Italian marble. The costs won't be the same if I'm a miniaturist painter and create tiny pieces. So it will be important to frame the budget to ensure that we don't go overboard. Having said that, I'd like to thank the honourable senator and Mr. Aldag again for introducing this bill.

Madam Chair, I'd like to take this opportunity to propose a motion that I put on notice on May 30. It relates to what Ms. Thomas proposed to the committee earlier. I'll read the motion again:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of six (6) meetings regarding the protection of freedom of expression and the means the Government should have at its disposal to ensure its exercise.

What Ms. Thomas was saying earlier is absolutely true; there is a growing concern among the Quebeckers and Canadian about freedom of expression. The very concept of freedom of expression is not clear to everyone. Many people have questioned the notion of freedom of expression in recent years, particularly during the COVID‑19 crisis. This concept needs to be clarified.

Of course, as parliamentarians, we work on bills, and we know that these bills are always subject to paragraph 2(b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. However, it's not that clear to the general public.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.