Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 31st, 2023

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Are you asking the colleague to apologize?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes, I'm giving him that opportunity.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

You have the floor, Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Is my colleague ceding the floor?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Chair, you know how this is conducted.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Absolutely not. She'll be waiting a very long time. I'm not going to apologize for what I said.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

There's your answer, Mrs. Thomas, and you have the floor.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

The level of tension created by a motion asking for an anti-Semite to be held accountable is interesting to me. He's an anti-Semite who was given close to $130,000 by this current government. The members across the way can't stand that a motion like this would be moved to hold this individual to account. It's a motion that would draw attention to the fact that this individual took this money. It was demanded that he pay it back, but he hasn't. It's a motion that points out the fact that the current government has done little to get the money or hold Mr. Marouf to account. It's been more than eight months, and not a single dollar has been repaid.

I believe it's incumbent upon us. I believe it's the right thing to do. Allow the Minister of Canadian Heritage to come before this committee to be asked questions with regard to her intent and whether or not this money is in fact going to be reclaimed. The Canadian taxpayer deserves to know their money isn't being used by a raging anti-Semite. The Canadian public deserves to know the money they pay into the coffers of this government is going toward the common good. Certainly, when money goes into the hands of an anti-Semite, it is not for the common good.

I'll leave my comments there.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Thank you, Mrs. Thomas.

You have the floor now, Ms. Gladu.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would say that I support this motion, because I am very concerned about the rise of anti-Semitism in the country.

We see from this Laith Marouf incident that he hasn't paid the money back. There was no consequence to him. There was no consequence to Minister Hussen or Minister Rodriguez at the time. Now we're seeing, within our country, a rise in anti-Semitism inflamed by the situation in Israel and Gaza. We have Jewish children afraid to go to school. We have clear pro-Hamas demonstrations happening in the country. People are saying to me, “Where are the police? Where are the consequences? Where is the action? What will the government do to stop this rising anti-Semitism, so Jewish people can be free here in Canada to worship in safety?”

I think this is the tip of the spear, as they say. I certainly support this resolution. I think it makes a point that there needs to be consequences for anti-Semitism in our country, and it begins here.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

Mr. Waugh, you have the floor now.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was appalled when I saw the article by Jamie Sarkonak last Wednesday. Listen, we had Canadian Heritage officials in this very committee stating the fact that $123,000 of the $134,000 has still not been paid back. They held back $10,000 of the first grant—the anti-racism grant. The Department of Canadian Heritage awarded Mr. Marouf $134,000, but they're waiting to hear back on the remaining $123,000. We were told by department officials at the time that they've sent it to collections, and they haven't received a dime back.

I will echo what my colleagues have said.

Last night, the Sergeant-at-Arms issued that we should lock our offices back home, from coast to coast. We are in an intense time. In Saskatchewan, two or three offices have been invaded in the last couple of days. Right now, because of certain anti-racism comments made in the past number of weeks, we are seeing this. I'm floored the Department of Canadian Heritage has not taken this at all seriously...from Laith Marouf. This is an anti-Semite. It was brought up by the member for Mount Royal at the committee. It was brought forward, almost a year ago, to his own department. This person shouldn't have received a dime from the Liberal government, yet he did.

Mr. Chair, I'm appalled by what I saw in the National Post. I had suspected the collection agency had received most if not all of the $123,000.

I support the motion put forth today by Mr. Shields, and I will call for the vote.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Mr. Waugh, as you know, before calling the question, everyone on the list must have spoken. But there are still people on the list, including Mr. Noormohamed.

Mr. Noormohamed, you have the floor.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by putting a couple of things on the record.

I take great pride at being among the first members of Parliament of any party to condemn what Mr. Marouf did. On August 21, when the issue first was brought forward, I put out a statement saying that Mr. Marouf's comments were vile, racist and anti-Semitic. They were wrong by any measure, and particularly for someone who is supposed to be working to help eliminate racism from broadcasting.

I stand by every single one of those words. I believe that Mr. Marouf's actions were vile. They were reprehensible. They were anti-Semitic. They did absolutely nothing to advance the cause of diversity, inclusion or elimination of racism in this country. I believe that to be the case, and I believe every single person in this room would agree with that.

I also think it's important for us to try not to use incredibly inflammatory language around things that are causing deep distress in communities right now. In my riding, this was something of great upset to my constituents. I believe very strongly that Mr. Marouf should never have received the funding that he did. I believe very strongly that Mr. Marouf should pay back every single dime of the money he received from the government and the taxpayers of Canada.

I also understand that collecting money from people once they have it, no matter the instruments we have at our disposal, can sometimes be difficult. It is my understanding that this has now been turned over to a collection agency. I don't know whether anyone opposite has ever had an experience with a collection agency—thankfully, I have not—but I understand it to be a very unpleasant experience. I am hopeful that they are successful in their work.

I don't want anyone to assume for a moment that any of us think that Mr. Marouf should be able to keep the money he got from the federal government, nor do I want anyone in this room to assume that anyone condones anything that Mr. Marouf has said or done, because we don't. Making that the assumption when reading this motion, as others in this room have chosen to do, is patently inaccurate, unfair and untrue. All it does is seek to cause division and to stoke further hatred.

I am concerned about a motion that seeks to call the minister, who by the way was not the minister at the time, to come and present within a week. I am concerned about a motion like this, which doesn't actually call the perpetrator of that hatred to come. It leads me to wonder whether this is a political hit or whether it's a desire to actually collect the money. If this is a desire to collect the money, which the taxpayers of this country must have back, I think the real question is how we make sure that the work that is being done to collect that money is being done. I think it's important for us to be able to ask those questions, and we are asking those questions.

With this motion calling for the minister to appear and to explain, I'm not sure exactly what the minister is going to be able to explain to us beyond that this has gone to collections and there are legal processes under way to collect that money. If there are other things beyond that.... I don't know whether the Conservatives are proposing to send a hit squad. I don't know whether that's in the tool kit that is being proposed.

I am very curious to understand what else—

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I have a point of order.

Chair, I'm not sure what the member opposite meant by bringing “a hit squad” That sounds like he's thinking we're going to be violent. I think that is totally unacceptable and not reality in any way. I would request that he withdraw that.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

Mr. Noormohamed, you have the floor.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

If that is how Ms. Gladu understood what I said, then I take back my comment unreservedly. I apologize if that is how that was taken.

There have been comments made in this committee over the last little while about the scourge of anti-Semitism. I think it's really important for every single person in this room to condemn those things when they are heard and when they are seen. I think it's important for members opposite to condemn those members of their party who chose to have dinner with a raging anti-Semite, Islamophobe and neo-Nazi. I am still waiting for every single member opposite to do that because, my goodness, if we are going to hold ourselves to that standard, then we must all be held to that standard.

I take great pride and great responsibility in ensuring that when I see an act of anti-Semitism or Islamophobia or hatred that I speak out against it. That is our obligation, even when our colleagues are doing that. It is important for us not to equivocate on this.

I look forward, as part of this conversation, for the members opposite, who have yet to apologize unreservedly for the actions of their colleagues and their party in hosting an anti-Semite from Germany, from a neo-Nazi organization—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I'm still looking for that apology to all Canadians.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Mr. Noormohamed, Mrs. Thomas is rising on a point of order.

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I just wanted to raise that I'm still waiting for an apology from the Liberals on behalf of their Prime Minister for doing blackface.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

That's a matter of debate.

Mr. Noormohamed, you have the floor.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

This is, I think, very clear. They have now said that as individual members who take responsibility for their own actions, they are not prepared to call out their own colleagues. That's fine.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I have a point of order.