Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2023

[Catherine Tait]

I understand. I got it. Thank you so much. I beg your pardon.

To be clear, over the last 30 years, CBC/Radio-Canada has not had a real increase in its budget, real dollars aside. We are flat. Yet today, as opposed to just providing traditional, linear television and radio, we are providing service across a number of digital platforms, because that's where Canadians are. Here is an interesting fact: When I started at CBC, the number of people watching traditional television was at about 28%. It has now dropped to 14%. The number of people watching only digital was at about 14%, and now it's in the high thirties. What we're seeing is a shift to digital.

To defund this organization in a world of extreme polarization.... We are the only national news media organization in the country with a mandate to serve all Canadians. Therefore, should we be defunded, we would no longer be reaching all of those Canadians.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Could you briefly tell me what impact that would have, in particular on rural communities?

[Catherine Tait]

It would be devastating. We already have, in English Canada, 33 communities with populations of over 50,000 that have no CBC presence.

I just flagged to MP Thomas that we were delighted to open a one-person bureau in Lethbridge last year.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Tait.

I have a quick question for you on this.

I'm looking at some of the headlines on CBC over the last little while, and one of the headlines reads, “Pierre Poilievre's inner circle divided over how to tackle gender issues, sources say”. Does that mean that the CBC is saying that the inner circle is divided, or is it saying that sources are saying that?

[Catherine Tait]

Sources are saying it.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

There's an article with a headline that reads, “Ed Fast says Poilievre supporters tried to 'muzzle' him on monetary policy”. Is that the CBC saying that Poilievre supporters tried to muzzle Ed Fast, or is it Ed Fast saying that?

[Catherine Tait]

It's Ed Fast saying that.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

If I were to read the totality of all the stories that were written in respect of the tragedy at the hospital in Gaza—I would start with the letter that Ms. Thomas and Ms. Lantsman referred to and then continue to read all of the articles that have been written—what conclusion would a reasonable person reach?

[Catherine Tait]

It would be that the CBC and Radio-Canada are reporting on the facts and on the sources that they have received on the ground or through other reputable news organizations.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Why does the CBC—why does any credible journalist—indicate who their source is?

[Catherine Tait]

It's because otherwise we would be in the business of opinion.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

If you were in the business of opinion, how would that make you different from journalists?

I'm asking these questions because I think it's really important for Canadians to understand the difference between presenting facts or sources and presenting opinions.

[Catherine Tait]

It is extremely.... I go back to the five guiding principles: impartiality, fairness, balance, accuracy and integrity.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

With the time I have left, which I believe is 40 seconds, I would like to talk about accuracy for a moment.

What is the degree of confidence that you have in the accuracy and quality of the work of our journalists at CBC and Radio-Canada, particularly in areas of conflict?

[Catherine Tait]

I think we are the most outstanding, high-quality journalistic organization in this country. I have enormous pride in the work that our journalists do. We are the only journalistic organization that has any level of presence internationally, and even then, it's rather inadequate.

We do that work with extraordinary care. Our purpose is the public interest, first and foremost.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed.

Mr. Julian, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, we find ourselves in a situation where the Conservatives' inappropriate comments are putting our journalists in jeopardy. What measures have you taken to further protect journalists who are currently in the line of fire in the Middle East?

Secondly, how many awards have CBC journalists won in the last five years? I'm talking about awards from other journalists.

[Catherine Tait]

It would be hundreds of awards. I can give you a more precise figure if you want, but we are recognized by our peers here in Canada and around the world.

We were the first Canadian journalist organization to receive the trusted news certification by Reporters Without Borders.

What was the first question?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

It was about threats to journalists. I invite you to answer in French.

[Catherine Tait]

As I was saying, we have an enormous amount of work to do to protect and train our journalists. In fact, we provided training to journalists from other news organizations in the private sector who couldn't afford it. We provide training to both CBC/Radio-Canada and private sector journalists to prepare them for reporting in dangerous situations.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you for that.

You pointed out—and the Conservatives have to admit—that there was a series of articles in the evolution following the explosions at the hospital that clearly indicated, as more information came out, where that information was coming from, whether it was the U.S. or the United Nations.

However, if somebody says they still don't like seeing that CBC article in the archives, even though CBC has updated it with new articles, what is open to that Canadian to do? With Fox, they can't do a thing, because Fox has no ombudsman process, but what can somebody who's concerned about something like that, an older article that they don't like—

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Time is up. Please provide a 10‑second answer, Ms. Tait.

[Catherine Tait]

There are a number of things a Canadian can do if they don't like anything they see in any of our journalism, but first and foremost, they can reach out to the ombudsman, in French or in English, and indicate their concern. The ombudsman operates independently from management. In fact, the ombudsman reports directly to the board and the public on a biannual basis, and reports on any errors or concerns in the journalism. That is entirely public.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Thank you, Ms. Tait.

I would like to ask you a question about the processes around ensuring independence and protecting newsrooms from any influence that might come from CBC/Radio-Canada management, but also from the political community and lobbies. I believe that is a principle that you defend very fiercely. I want to know how far this “Iron Curtain“ between newsrooms and senior management at CBC/Radio-Canada extends.

I'm thinking, for example, of a senior management meeting that brings together all department representatives, as well as the news branch. Is it possible that as a result of these senior management meetings, some sort of trend or ideological viewpoint from within CBC/Radio-Canada could seep into the directives that are then given to the newsrooms? How do you prevent seepage within the organization?

[Catherine Tait]

That responsibility lies with Brodie Fenlon and Luce Julien, and I can tell you that they fiercely protect that independence. I very rarely meet these people, unless they make a presentation to the board of directors. There is no daily contact at all. We respect the distance between us, and if ever a comment is made, Ms. Fenlon and Ms. Julien rectify things immediately.