Evidence of meeting #96 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was journalists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Anna Gainey Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
I lost my thought there.
Did you have another question?
November 2nd, 2023 / 9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you.
I would like to go back to where you started talking about foreign interference and the implications of that for journalists on the ground. I'm wondering if you can expand on that a little more. Also, do you know how many other Canadian news organizations are actually on the ground in the Middle East right now? Is it just CBC or are there others?
9:15 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
With respect to others on the ground—maybe Barb could provide it because of her background with Global—I know that Global and CTV have people.
On the French side, I don't know.
9:15 a.m.
Interim Executive Vice-President, Radio-Canada, CBC/Radio-Canada
At the beginning of the conflict, Noovo, which is part of Bell Media, had a few people on the ground, but I don't think that's the case anymore.
9:15 a.m.
Barbara Williams Executive Vice-President, CBC, CBC/Radio-Canada
You're right. On the English side, Global and CTV are there. There are others there.
I think we've been able to have a longer and more dedicated presence in the Middle East, as well as in Ukraine, and we have formed bureaus in other parts of the world. Other English news organizations haven't been able to be there in as permanent or as widespread a way as we have.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
What are the risks to Canadians if CBC/Radio-Canada's funding is cut?
What are the risks to our democracy, for example?
9:15 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
The risks are significant, because without CBC/Radio‑Canada we would live in a disconnected society. In such a vast country, it is very difficult to have common ideas and values. Francophones in minority communities especially will not have access to local news services in French. The same is true for people who live in the north of the country: there will be no more ties. We are an essential part of these people's lives. Our role, that of connecting communities, is very important.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON
You mentioned that you now have a reporter on the ground in Lethbridge. I know that in Hamilton, our town, there is a really strong CBC team that is fully digital and that is able to transition to other platforms as well.
How important are those digital teams to Canadians?
9:15 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
It's the future.
Coming out of COVID, we had some savings from travel because no one was travelling, and we put it right into local journalism. We sent Juanita Taylor to represent The National, a national show, and now she's in Rankin Inlet reporting from the north. Lethbridge, Cranbrook, Grand Prairie, Nanaimo, Hamilton.... We have a digital studio in London, Ontario. This is the future. It's much more mobile.
On the francophone side, we have video newscasts, which people can watch on their mobile devices.
It's the future, and it allows us to be so much more flexible in getting out of the station and getting close to Canadians. That's what matters.
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
Thank you very much, Ms. Hepfner.
Ms. Tait, if you have a few more minutes to give to the committee, could you stay for another round of questions? It's 9:20. Can you stay a bit longer?
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
Okay. Are our Conservative colleagues willing to do another round of questions?
Ms Thomas, are you ready to go for five minutes?
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
Let me just confirm with Ms. Tait that we do have time for a full round.
9:20 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
That's perfect.
We have time for a third round. The Liberals and Conservatives will have five minutes each, and the NDP and the Bloc will have two and a half minutes each.
Ms. Thomas, you have the floor.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that.
In the spring, Twitter determined that it would attach a label to public broadcasters, and it did that across the board. The CBC had that done to its profile, so it had a label that said “government-funded” broadcaster attached. When interviewed, the CBC said that this was a threat to journalistic independence.
It is curious to me how announcing that public dollars are being received and are being used by the CBC is somehow a threat to journalistic independence, yet Ms. Tait is contending here today that receiving government money is not a threat to journalistic independence. I'm confused as to which one it is. On the one hand, when Twitter makes it public that government dollars, $1.4 billion, are being received by this organization to put out news, it is all of a sudden a threat to journalistic independence. If a Conservative were to bring that up, then it is not a threat to journalistic independence.
If the CBC was given the opportunity to be truly independent and to be set free from the shackles of government money, would it be okay? Would it continue to provide Canadians with news?
9:20 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
It would be extremely difficult to provide news to many of the underserved communities: rural communities, your own community of Lethbridge, the north, francophones living in minority communities across the country. We would not have sufficient funding. The reason there is no commercial, private news in those communities is that it's not economically viable. We have the privilege and the honour of serving Canadians in those communities by using the public funding we receive.
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
When 100% of the CBC's budget is dependent on dollars being given out by the federal government, that would mean there is dependance there, which is to say it's the opposite of independence. When the CBC CEO, the president, Ms. Tait, just said to me that it would not be able to provide the coverage without that money, again, that says it is beholden to the government. It cannot survive without the government dollars, which means, then, that it's hard to believe that the news coverage is entirely independent.
I'm curious, again, as to how the CBC can then claim to be independent if it can't survive without the government dollars.
9:20 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
I should just correct the record. Our funding is not 100% from government. We also have a—
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
I didn't say “funding”; I said “budget”. Your budget is 100% dependent on—
9:20 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
No, it is not. Our budget is $1.8 billion. The balance is earned revenue from advertising and subscription.
We have a—
9:20 a.m.
Conservative
9:20 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
Plus another $400 million in earned revenue....
We manage that budget as best we can to deliver the maximum service across the country.