Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 1st, 2025

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I would be curious to know ACREA's position on this issue. It would be very interesting for our future work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Mr. Waugh, it's over to you for five minutes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon South, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I welcome B'nai Brith.

Mr. Robertson, thank you for coming today. You had a number of interesting topics. You had at least three recommendations.

Let's talk about national security and the misinformation you are seeing as an organization online and then, of course, the violent extremism you're seeing, certainly, with the Jewish group not only in this country but worldwide. I'd like you to comment on that.

[Richard Robertson]

We cannot divorce the misinformation and disinformation spreading online from the acts of violent extremism we are seeing on our streets. We've heard from our national security apparatus, from CSIS, the RCMP and other stakeholders that increasingly, individuals, specifically youth, are being driven to extremism or being radicalized online.

There are numerous reports of individuals who were radicalized online now facing criminal charges in this country. Many of them are young members of our society. We've seen groups such as the Goyim Defense League, 764, the Maniac Murder Cult and terrorist organizations like Samidoun and others continuing to spread misinformation and disinformation online. The impact of this on Canadian society should not be taken lightly. This is a national security threat.

You have individuals hearing disinformation online. For instance, the gentleman who stabbed a woman at an Ottawa supermarket was an individual who was radicalized online in his own online echo chamber. He became increasingly radicalized, and the result was that a Canadian citizen almost died.

There's been a lot of talk today about sexploitation. When you have groups like 764, a nihilistic group intending to create the downfall of western society, actively targeting youth online and encouraging youth to distribute and produce child pornography, those are threats to our national security.

We've seen increasingly through our monitoring of these extremist threats that they are growing online. Their pervasiveness is growing. The multiplicity of the platforms they are using to spread radical ideology online is increasing by the day, and we are behind the times. That is why our second recommendation is digital literacy for Canadian youth.

The train has left the station. Legislation is fantastic, and setting age limits is fantastic. However, we need to ensure that these youth aren't flying blind into a storm and that they are equipped with the tools to actively confront the misinformation and disinformation they're seeing.

You asked about the connectivity with the Jewish community. Over the past two years, we've seen an increase of 124% in anti-Semitism. We're dealing with an endemic of online radicalization and a national crisis of anti-Semitism.

In our 2024 audit, we pointed to the use of AI to disseminate hateful content. There were images of Holocaust survivors on roller coasters at concentration camps and images of Anne Frank using a ballpoint pen, which is a Holocaust conspiracy theory. All of these were generated in AI.

Anti-Semitism, online radicalization, the misuse of social media and the nefarious acts of social media influencers are inseparable in today's society.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon South, SK]

When your organization brought the three recommendations here, how would you lay out that program? If I said to you that B'nai Brith is in charge today of online situations, with the three points you made—and they were very good, by the way—how would you bring that out? What's your recommendation?

[Richard Robertson]

My recommendation is that it can't be B'nai Brith Canada. B'nai Brith Canada can use our expertise to consult other like-minded not-for-profits. Those with expertise in this sphere should be consulted, but this needs to be a national program rolled out by our federal government.

We've seen noble attempts from actors across society to create digital literacy programs, but they're ad hoc. They're piecemeal. We need to ensure that a national digital literacy curriculum is developed in consultation with the relevant stakeholders and that it is our government that rolls it out.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon South, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Robertson. I think that's all the time I have, but thank you very much.

[Richard Robertson]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Mr. Ntumba, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

I want to come back to Mr. Champoux's analogy about flies. It struck a chord with me, but I want to take it in the opposite direction.

You said that there are many people with good intentions who share interesting content online. However, there are still people who act more like supporters of Mr. Trump's MAGA movement and who are followed by millions of people.

Can we put something in place to attract more good flies, as Mr. Champoux said, who will serve as a counterweight to these people?

[Farnell Morisset]

I assume the question is directed at us?

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

Yes, the question is for you.

[Farnell Morisset]

Okay.

To echo Ms. Labrosse‑Héroux's comments about the web, namely that the web responds to the web, I think that what you are describing is indeed a very real situation. However, we should not ignore the current reality, which is that within social media ecosystems, there is a kind of natural immune system that is not perfect, but it does exist.

If someone presents or creates content that is deeply misleading, inaccurate, or even harmful, there are a lot of good flies, so to speak. These are people who will respond and who, generally speaking, will bring a great deal of credibility to their responses. It's not perfect, and we don't claim otherwise, but we shouldn't imagine that we don't exist in reality, that we are not capable of responding, of rectifying things, of creating an immune response that is still somewhat effective.

[Laurence Labrosse-Héroux]

If I may—

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

I understand.

Go ahead.

[Laurence Labrosse-Héroux]

If I may, I'd like to add some comments.

It's really up to the person consuming social media to do the necessary checks. If you see a video on TikTok about some news story, for example, look at the first five comments, and that's often where you'll see the first warning signs. If the content was generated by AI, someone will report it. If it's fake news, someone will write that it's not a real source.

We can certainly do a better job of identifying misinformation. However, we also need to raise awareness among social media users in general, so that they know they need to find a way to verify information. This may be less obvious for young people, but it's a bit like what happened on Facebook ten years ago when we started seeing fake news. We saw that certain generations were completely missing the point, meaning they weren't able to distinguish real information from fake information.

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Mr. Morisset or Ms. Labrosse‑Héroux, one of you also spoke about the freedom and power that our online interactions generate, directly in relation to algorithms. I also heard earlier that, ultimately, each organization manages its own algorithms.

Are algorithms truly democratic, presenting things to us based on our habits, or is there someone behind the scenes who has programmed them to suggest things for us to follow that would be to their advantage?

[Laurence Labrosse-Héroux]

No, the content is really presented based on consumption, depending on the time of day, depending on what you're in the mood for when you consume the information. The best algorithm for that is probably TikTok.

If you start watching videos about macaroni and cheese, it will send you 20 more in a row. It's really that simple.

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

Okay.

Two weeks ago, I asked one of your colleagues in the world of AI the following question.

Let's say that one morning, I need a new watch, then two days later, I see ads for watches on Facebook and Instagram.

Who was listening in? Who did that? I didn't scroll through any information about watches.

How does that happen?

[Laurence Labrosse-Héroux]

Essentially, it's something outside of social media. It's probably a pixel that tracks consumers on the web. Once a pixel tracks someone who goes on social media to look at watches, for example on the Rolex website, their entire journey on the web is tracked. It is outside of social media itself.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you, Mr. Ntumba.

[Bienvenu-Olivier Ntumba, Liberal, Mont-Saint-Bruno—L’Acadie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Mr. Diotte, you are next for five minutes.