Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 20th, 2025

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madame Bouchard, you've been very frank with your answers, and I want you to know that it's appreciated.

You mentioned AI tools earlier during an excellent response. As you may know, this committee is currently undertaking a study on the impact of technology advancements in artificial intelligence on Canada's creative industries. I'd like to offer you the opportunity to speak to CBC/Radio-Canada's perspective on this—the way it's impacting journalists and the way in which you operate.

I'm also interested in knowing what role you believe CBC/Radio-Canada might be able to play in setting national standards for ethical and transparent AI use.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

That's a very active and interesting question, and I think it's on the mind of everybody who is in the creative sector.

There are concerns about intellectual property being stolen through AI processes, the scraping that's going on, which is affecting all the media organizations that are deprived of their intellectual property, of the hard-working reporting they're paying for and producing, which is being used to train models.

There are concerns about artists being dubbed or having their voice fabricated and having them speak stuff that they've never said, sometimes to defraud people, which is even worse for their image. There's a lot of scary stuff going on.

There's also a lot of potential in AI, and that's the paradox. We can all sit back and say that's horrible but it's happening, or we can leverage it to some extent and use it for good. I think we have a lot of really smart scientists and artists in our country who are well equipped to help us tackle this potential, and at the same time trying to protect.... There's definitely a role for government in setting some ground rules so that we can protect the intellectual property and the value of people's investment in their creation. At the same time, there's also a lot of work to be done on media literacy to safeguard the ability of citizens to understand where they're getting their information and whether it is reliable or a fake, a deepfake.

Then there's how the media and the community itself can work together to develop practices and ways of working that are in fact respectful of IP, respectful of facts and of the citizens, but improve productivity and allow us to create more content at a reasonable cost because we have mastery of those tools.

We definitely have to share and work together. I don't think it's a case where everyone can develop their own in silos. We're too small, compared to the big guys who are right now just descending on the whole world, and there would be great value in working together. We have conversations with partners, with potential partners, about their challenges and the possibility that we can join forces, and I expect these conversations to continue and accelerate.

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

That's fantastic. Thank you once again for a very comprehensive response.

I'll discuss another topic.

I like Toronto, especially when the Blue Jays are playing well. However, the city can sometimes feel a bit stifling. We're seeing this in Mississauga in the media these days.

Similarly, national broadcasters play a key role in informing the public, but they can also overshadow or draw attention away from smaller local media outlets. This can lead to media deserts.

Could you tell us a bit more about this situation?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

In our regional deployment plan, we focused on markets adjacent to larger markets. The chair referred to Hamilton, and I'm quite aware of that market.

In Quebec, in the city of Lévis and throughout the Chaudière‑Appalaches region, and in the greater Toronto area's Peel region, the markets are peripheral. These cities have their own economic and cultural life. These types of cities often aren't served by the old method of having a station in the downtown core.

Setting up offices and creating content available across all our platforms from these offices make it possible to provide local information and also to create the potential for national representation for these communities.

This provides a two‑fold benefit for communities. For our organization, it's an opportunity to connect with very urban communities, very rural communities and the surrounding areas.

The surrounding areas are often places where people feel less connected to the mainstream media and where trust, while not necessarily eroding, may be less cultivated. The goal is really to cultivate that trust with relevant content.

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Canada is often cited as having one of the most transparent and trustworthy media landscapes, demonstrated through CBC/Radio-Canada's recertification by Reporters Without Borders' journalism trust initiative in September 2024.

Can you speak to why you think Canada is perceived as transparent and trustworthy globally?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

First of all, I think we have a very robust governance structure for media. We have independent public media, and we have private and community media. The broadcasting sector has always been a hybrid market, and we've had, historically, a very strong written press. That's been challenged to a large degree. I'm hoping it can transform and morph into something else. There remain large publications that are more digital than paper now, but they're still very significant. The diversity of the sources is one of the factors.

The existence of legal protections for journalists and for media that ensure their independence, protect their sources and support their ability to access government information, and the fact that government officials respond—because there are cultures and countries where you can ask all you want and you're not going to get an answer—and our governments feel they are responsible and answer questions from journalists, all of that induces a culture that makes the media more reliable, more trustworthy and more independent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Bouchard, if you look around the table, you'll see that a few of us have grey hair—although some of us hide it well. We lived in a time when we had to be a bit curious in order to seek out information and stay informed. We had to read the newspaper and plan our evening schedule around when we would sit down to watch news reports, the television news or other sources of information.

In those days, fewer people were well informed and more people were less informed. Today, some people are well informed. Perhaps we're still curious about finding information in the right places, especially by checking sources. Many tools give us the chance to do this. At the same time, some people are also exposed to current events, but with news coming from all kinds of sources. We touched on this earlier. You spoke about digital literacy, and that's what I'm getting at.

I have the impression that it's an even greater challenge today. You don't just need to inform people who may be less exposed to current events or news. You also need to draw people back from unreliable sources that provide inaccurate information. These sources are spreading misinformation. You spoke about artificial intelligence. It's a great tool, but also a scourge at the moment.

When you embark on a mission to foster the curiosity of future generations, how do you overcome this challenge without losing hope or becoming discouraged?

I wouldn't call it a lost cause, which would be quite defeatist. However, I sometimes sense that this is a massive struggle.

What are your thoughts?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

It's a major challenge indeed.

The first step is to get out there. That means showing up where people are getting their information. Some people, especially entire generations of young people, spend all their time on YouTube. If you don't give them rigorous content that shows up on YouTube, you're missing the boat.

You also need to take part in educational activities and engage with young people. At Radio‑Canada, we organize school visits throughout the year to give young people the chance to become somewhat familiar with how news is produced and how the media machine works. There's something a bit mysterious about this process. Anyone can make a video, but you must know what a rigorous approach entails. You must know about the need to check your facts and use two sources, because one source isn't enough.

This effort to shed light on the process helps give young people the tools needed to exercise sound judgment regarding information. I think that the media and educational institutions have a collective responsibility to work more closely together.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That's precisely what I want to talk about.

I can see that you're trying. Earlier, you mentioned a couple of news sections on Radio-Canada's site, Rad and MAJ. You have an online presence; you're delivering news and information to young audiences in a format that speaks to them in the spaces where they gather.

Still, social media platforms are massive engines. For every piece of trustworthy information on TikTok, there must be 150 pieces that aren't. You can't systematically target and expose each one. That's not your job.

Nevertheless, as a society, we need to figure out a way to identify unverified or untrustworthy content. We also need to do that as citizens, and we need to teach young people how to do it.

How do we do that, though?

You said you work with schools, but at what age do you start educating children? They have screens and go on social media younger and younger. I think Canada is behind. It should have taken the bull by the horns by now, but it hasn't. Meanwhile, young people are at risk of falling into this trap for years.

How do we tackle the problem quickly?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

The decrease in content moderation on the platforms—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

There's none.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

Yes, it has deteriorated so much that it's non-existent. That doesn't help things.

Certainly, that's what we are seeing. There's no oversight. Every other type of media has oversight. In some cases, it's self-regulation. The Quebec Press Council helps to provide that oversight. Broadcasters are overseen by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC. CBC/Radio-Canada has an ombud, but the online platforms have nothing. There's no framework holding them to account for anything.

That means the public needs to be better equipped. Scandinavian countries, for instance, have opted to address the issue by focusing on the school curriculum. That work carries through to media organizations, especially public media, which encourage and support the initiatives.

Civil society stakeholders need to work together, because the online platforms can't be counted on for oversight.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

You're absolutely right.

I believe we're meeting with Meta representatives on Wednesday. They'll keep telling us how they are working to verify content, how removing false ads from their platforms is hard. It was in the news again this week, ads encouraging people to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

My apologies, Mr. Champoux, but I have to interrupt. There's an issue with the interpretation.

I'll suspend for a minute while we try to deal with the problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

All right, we're back.

Mr. Champoux, you can have a minute. I think that will be enough.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, I'm disappointed to hear you say that a minute will be enough, but I'll take every second you give me. Thank you.

Ms. Bouchard, we are fighting this great battle for digital literacy. We also want to instill curiosity in those who consume content or have an interest in what's going on. However, we are up against digital giants that couldn't care less. They do what they want. Instead of using tools like AI in constructive and helpful ways, they use them for a completely different purpose. They use them to increase the spread of fake news and content that is often extremely questionable.

In conclusion, what does co-operation with foreign industry players look like to you? Eventually, there will have to be some.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I would say that thinking about society and identifying all the elements that make society stronger is in the DNA of public service.

It's about putting our collective heads together and working with all the change-makers that can be of use. Private and community media come to mind, as do public players—media, libraries and the education system, from elementary schools to universities.

Sometimes it will mean working with researchers to better understand certain phenomena and leveraging touch points with audiences to understand what's going on.

It really requires thinking about all the tools we have, as a society. We are orchestrators. We can be much more effective with a lot of people.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

We can never become complacent.

Thank you very much, Ms. Bouchard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Mrs. Thomas, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Bouchard, I asked earlier about LMIAs being acquired and temporary foreign workers being hired by the CBC. You said that wasn't done under your watch. The last LMIA that was secured was in quarter three of 2024, so that would have been just a few months before you took over in January 2025.

What happened there, then? If there was an LMIA that went in, was that person never hired?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I'm sorry; what is this acronym that you're using? I'm not familiar with it.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

An LMIA is an approval from the province to hire a temporary foreign worker for a position at the CBC after they have shown proof that they've looked for a Canadian worker to fill that position but haven't been able to find one.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

Okay.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

The CBC applied for an LMIA approval, and they got it in quarter three of 2024, just before your tenure started. That seems to be on the books during your time as the CEO, but you said earlier that it didn't actually happen on your watch. Was this person hired and then fired only a few months later?