Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 20th, 2025

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay.

Do you unequivocally condemn these comments as extremely racist?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

They're unacceptable, hurtful and contrary to our journalistic standards and practices.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I appreciate that, but this isn't the first time this has actually happened. We've seen anti-Semitic rhetoric used by the CBC and unfair reporting.

For example, during the events of October 7, when those were reported by the CBC, throughout that time, statistics were often taken from Hamas itself, which of course is a terrorist entity, and used by the CBC as if they were from a government ministry itself.

In addition to that, there was news reported from the CBC with regard to a supposed hospital bombing by Israel. Of course, that was pushed out by the CBC as alarming breaking news, only to find out moments later that it was actually a misguided missile from Hamas and that it wasn't a hospital; it was a parking lot next to the hospital. By that point, you can imagine the hatred and the outrage that had already been targeted toward a vulnerable population that exists here in Canada, our Jewish community.

It has been time after time. Unfortunately, I don't have the allotment of time to outline all of the incidents, but this has happened a lot.

What are you doing to tackle this anti-Semitic rhetoric that exists within the CBC and its news reporting?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

If there is any incidence of inaccurate reporting, there is a process. It's called the ombudsman's office. We answer an awful lot of questions and complaints—first of all, the news management itself, and then, if the complainant is not satisfied with the answer they get, they have full access to the ombudsman. This is how we get better. If there are mistakes being made, then there is full transparency on that.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

With all due respect, it's not getting better, though. I mean, here we are. This most recent event just took place on September 15, when extremely racist, extremely anti-Semitic comments were made on the airwaves.

I guess my question for you on behalf of the Canadian public, and in particular on behalf of the Jewish community, would be this: Will you, as the CEO of the CBC, undertake a thorough investigation to confront this type of systematic racism that exists within your organization?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

What we do, and what we've endeavoured to do, is to train and support our journalists and our teams to identify situations where statements could be made by third parties, witnesses or whatever and to treat those with care. We try to source our material in the best way we can and to live up to our standards. We are constantly reminding them what our standards are.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

My question is very straightforward. It's just a yes or no. Will you do an investigation? Will you make sure that, from top to bottom within your organization, there is not in fact a line of systemic racism?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

My answer is, we have very robust journalistic processes and protocols. They are examined on a continuous basis for all sorts of potential situations.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

What I'm hearing from you, with all due respect, Ms. Bouchard, is an unwillingness to do a re-examination. You're stating to this committee that it's okay, that everything is fine and that you've already done everything that can possibly be done: “There's nothing to see here. Turn away, folks, and look elsewhere.”

I'm asking you whether you would dare—

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I don't think that's what I'm stating.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

—to take a second look inside your organization. Would you dare to take a second look? Would you dare to do an investigation?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that journalism is a continuous process of questioning, revisiting and challenging, and this is how we live. This is what we do, so we don't have stop everything to do a full investigation.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

So, no further investigation—

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

We are constantly challenging ourselves.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

—and no further insight.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

Mr. Myles, you have five minutes.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Thank you very much.

I have a question about the mandate. I always find the mandate interesting. I think the mandate is something along the lines of promoting Canadian stories, exporting Canadian stories to the world, strengthening local artists, Canadians telling stories about themselves to other Canadians, uniting the country. What I'm interested in is the relationship between the mandate and ratings, because it's a tricky balance.

I think about cultural programming. I think about CBC Music Top 20. If we're talking about cultural programming—and I'm sure it's the same on Radio-Canada—there's always a tendency to want to play American hits because it gets people through the door. I'm sure that, in television, American sitcoms get people in, and then ratings go up. At the same time, that doesn't actually speak to why it's publicly funded and has the mandate that it does. Then, all of a sudden, it's competing with commercial entities in major markets—let's say, in the soft rock market, they're playing similar music at similar times.

How can CBC lean into the mandate, and what is the relationship with ratings? It is a tricky balance.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

An old boss of mine used to say, “There's no public broadcasting without a public”, so we need to be reaching people. That's why I was saying that reach is a really important factor: How many Canadians actually tune in to our programming, wherever and on whatever platform? Even if they tune in to YouTube or TikTok, but it's CBC-produced or CBC-acquired content, that counts for us. That's a way to touch people.

We're not in a race to be number one. Sometimes we end up being number one, and that's a by-product of putting out good content that people want to listen to or watch. Again, the radio success is all about the local, our ability to be close to where people live and what's important to them.

In terms of music, I ran Ici Musique on the French side for a number of years, with great joy. It's doing incredibly well, with a very unorthodox approach to music radio. It's not formatted. It's multi-genre and it's growing. That says something about our ability to mediate between artists and the public, and to intelligently bring discovery into their lives. That's a craft and something our people are really great at.

I think it's a mix of making sure we have moments when we can all feel together.... Last Saturday, again on Radio-Canada, was the 400th episode of En direct de l'univers. It was all about the public who were fans of that show. It's been going on for 17 years. It's a great showcase for local talent. We do that on CBC, and we do that on Radio-Canada. It's not about the commercial value or the mass audience; it's about feeling together and the cultural experience we generate.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Do you think that, over the years you've been there, it's leaned sometimes more towards...? There must be a balance. At some point, you know you can play Beyoncé every hour and it's going to bump up ratings. At what level do you say no to Santana and say yes to...?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

Well, first of all, we've made our music formula to be, essentially, Canadian. We have the highest volume of Canadian plays in the market, so that's.... Also, we have a diversity of genres, which is unheard of.

However, we also have authors. We are a great force behind selling books by Canadian authors. Our programs and our contests, like Canada Reads and the equivalent in French, sell books for our artists and creators. We have a real influence in how people experience culture and discover emerging artists, and that's really important, but we also have these moments when people come together around comedy or a great show that is iconic to their experience as Canadians.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Do you see the cultural programming moving into the regions as well?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

We have some already. The digital formats help us a lot, because they're less constraining than the traditional full production of television. Audio is easy. It is already fully cultural and decentralized. Television is a little trickier; it's easier to consider having multiple types of experiences and formats in digital.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

That's right, but local music shows, for instance, in each of these regions—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you, Mr. Myles. Your time is up.

We have time to do two more rounds, as long as we get through them quickly.

I'm going to turn to Mrs. Thomas.

You have six minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Perfect. Thank you very much.

Ms. Bouchard, I guess my question is with regard to temporary foreign workers. It's come to light that the CBC has hired 20 positions since 2015 just within Ontario alone. These positions were deemed “high-wage”. Why are Canadian workers not good enough for the CBC?