Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 20th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

For the second round, we'll go to Mr. Diotte for five minutes.

You have the floor.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you.

Thanks for being here, Madam President.

I wanted to tell you a little bit about myself. I have a great interest in the media myself. I was a journalist for three decades before getting into politics. I was also president of the Edmonton chapter of the Canadian Association of Journalists and a national director of that association. That association is all about trying to make journalism better. That's a driving passion of mine to this day. I think we need better journalists, we need more of them and we need them to be balanced.

Now, we've heard allegations from Travis Dhanraj, who is not some rookie, some kid. We've heard allegations from your former employee that CBC was not balanced and is not fair and objective.

How do you address that severe criticism? What do you say to that?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I say that we strive to be balanced. Are we always, every minute of every day, managing that? It's impossible to do that every minute, but overall we are striving to be balanced.

Mr. Dhanraj is talking about his own experience. Again, I said I wasn't able to comment on that.

We are aware that it is something that we need to work at all the time.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Why do you think you need to work at it all the time? Do you sense that there's not the balance that you would like?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

It's very difficult to measure output. It's easier to measure the perception. We do measure perception. Overall, the perception of balance is still very much measured around Canadians, but there are areas where we see that the numbers are a little lower. The numbers we get from the surveys we conduct about the perception of balance I think are a function of the fact that maybe we're not present enough in those locations.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Are you—

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I'm tying it in to the local service as a way to create that sense of inclusion, of reflection, that then draws into balance.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

This is particular to Alberta. I believe you've had surveys that indicate that Albertans do not.... They're not your biggest fans.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

It's Alberta and Saskatchewan.

Well, again, it's a paradox, because radio is very successful, but Alberta and Saskatchewan are areas where we need to invest.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Why do you think people in Saskatchewan and Alberta don't trust the CBC or feel that it's not balanced?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I wouldn't say people in general don't trust the CBC, because that's not what the evidence or the surveys reveal. The level of trust is not as high as we would like, but it is still the majority of people who trust CBC.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Could you extrapolate a little bit on the level of trust? What don't they trust? What is that survey telling you?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

The survey doesn't tell me exactly why their sentiment is what it is. They answer the question—

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

It's not a very good survey, then.

Aren't you trying to gauge trust and balance? As a long-time journalist, that's the premier thing that you want to achieve.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

You get a sense of that when you are in the field with the people. When you are boots-on-the-ground, reporting what's going on in the community, what the preoccupations are, I think that's how you enhance the sense of inclusion and the sense of trust.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thanks. That's a little vague.

As far as balance goes, I'm wondering if you would agree to table the last five Conservative voices that were on CBC News over the last two weeks. You were asked that previously, and we'd like to have it provided to the committee no later than October 30.

Is that fair?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I'm assuming that's possible.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Okay, so you'll do that.

There's an organization called AllSides media. It looks at media bias. Here's an example of how they rated some media outlets. They rated The Atlantic, The Guardian and The Huffington Post as left-wing media. They gave centrist ratings to Reuters, The Christian Science Monitor, Forbes magazine and The Wall Street Journal. They listed right-of-centre media as Fox News, National Review and The Epoch Times.

Do those sound about where they should be? Would you agree with that list?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

Well, I've seen those kinds of surveys, and it sounds.... That's about what I've seen from those surveys.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Okay, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

That's your time.

We'll go over to Ms. Royer now for five minutes.

[Zoe Royer, Liberal, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Marie-Philippe. I'm very pleased that you are here.

I'll start with a follow-up, in the spirit of fairness. While you are preparing that report, it would also be good to know how many Conservatives were asked for interviews but declined, particularly in the lead-up to the election.

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I think we can certainly add that information in.

[Zoe Royer, Liberal, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

There's an important distinction between a public broadcaster and state media. Just because a broadcaster is publicly funded, that does not make it state-controlled media, as you know. To be clear, the CBC is a public broadcaster, not state media. It operates at arm's length from our government.

Marie-Philippe, can you walk us through the key measures that ensure the CBC's independence and explain why it is inaccurate to compare it to state-controlled media?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

There are many things, but it's built into the Broadcasting Act. The statement is very clear that all the framework around the CBC, from its governance to the span of regulation that the CRTC exercises, is there to safeguard the independence of the corporation vis-à-vis government in terms of its editorial and creative freedom. We do have responsibilities in terms of accountability for the management of the appropriation that we get, but we are independent from all government interference in terms of editorial direction and creative freedom.

Those are the main aspects, but it's also verified by various organizations. We get verification of our independence through the Journalism Trust Initiative, which certifies organizations worldwide as to their independence.