COVID-19 Pandemic Committee on May 20th, 2020

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Chair, in March 2019, the rating agency Fitch issued a warning about Canada's overall government debt level. They said that Canada's gross general government debt remains close to a level that is “incompatible with 'AAA' status”.

Now we all know what that means. If our credit is downgraded, that will mean taxpayers will pay more to service the cost of that debt.

Can the Prime Minister tell the House how much it will cost Canadians in additional debt-servicing charges if Canada's credit rating is downgraded?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, there are only two G7 countries that had unanimous AAA credit ratings for their economic and fiscal management going into this crisis: Germany and Canada.

We have a perfect score in terms of credit agencies because we have managed to keep our debt as it relates to the size of our GDP under control. We were responsible over the past five years, which means that when this pandemic hit us, we had the means to invest and to help, directly, millions upon millions of Canadians who needed that help.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Chair, the exact opposite is true. Remember that when that government was first elected, they promised that the deficits would be small and temporary, just $10 billion a year for four years. Then they had to throw away that metric and said that as long as our debt-to-GDP ratio remains constant, that will be okay.

We all know that the economic output has shrunk. Meanwhile, spending even before this pandemic was going through the roof. Remember, it was the Liberal government that said Loblaws deserved $12 million for new fridges, and that Mastercard, a credit card company, deserved $50 million in corporate bailouts. The government made Canada weak heading into this pandemic, and all this additional spending that is being borrowed to provide assistance to Canadians is coming on the heels of record deficits and is hurting Canada's ability to maintain its credit rating.

One of the ways you can protect your credit rating is if you show the people you owe the money to how you're going to pay it back. Is the government willing to provide Canadians with an update as to how they will get Canada's fiscal track back under control when this pandemic is over?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, this is déjà vu all over again. We've heard yet again the same economic arguments that the Conservatives have been making for years. They made them in the 2015 election, when we proposed to invest in Canadians and they talked about debt reduction and austerity. They lost that election. Then in 2019, after four years of our demonstrating that investing in Canadians could not only create over a million new jobs but lift over a million Canadians out of poverty, they continued to make those same tired arguments and were rejected once again by Canadians.

We have demonstrated that fiscal responsibility, managing our finances properly while investing in Canadians, has been the responsible thing to do and has left us the fiscal firepower to invest in Canadians during this pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Mr. Blanchet, the floor is yours.

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When we established specific rules, we agreed on a number of representatives from each political party who would sit, for a total of 32 members. I invite everyone to count. The NDP, the Bloc Québecois and the Green Party have the number agreed on; the others do not. Perhaps this is a matter of fairness or a matter of safety, or perhaps both. At the moment, it is not working. Not long ago, all parties had more than the number.

So what good is it to make agreements when we do not observe them? That is my comment. The government has made two very formal commitments. On April 29, it committed to create employment incentives for those receiving the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB. That did not happen. However, it was said very clearly, and we certainly agreed on it.

Also…

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

One moment, please. Mr. Kurek has a point of order.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Chair, I believe it's consistent with parliamentary tradition not to comment on specific MPs who are or are not present within the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

It's interesting that you bring that up. It's a discussion I had while it was said.

I asked the table officers because it was said a bit in a roundabout way, but it was not directly referring to anybody in the room or referring to a group; it was more about proportionality. It was kind of borderline, but it's not quite a point of order. It's not quite sustainable, but it is something that is a concern.

I am sorry, Mr. Blanchet. You may continue.

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Chair, there is certainly a difference between pointing out that someone is absent and pointing out that too many are present. That is the issue today.

The government has made two formal commitments in the House and it has not lived up to them. We pointed this out in the sense that, next Monday, we are going to have to vote together once more. In a communication, the government asked us what we wanted. Our party has proposals, as usual, so we pointed out very clearly what we want. We did so this morning, in a media briefing. The leaders have spoken together to discuss it.

So I suggest that we start from scratch. If we want to work something out for Monday that is good for the people of Quebec and Canada, everyone has to keep their word. Otherwise, it all makes no sense.

Can the Prime Minister tell us whether he is aware of the Bloc Québecois' proposals for everyone to keep their word in the House?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, it is very important to observe the commitments that have been made. I can assure the hon. member that, if ever there is a vote, whatever the number of members present in the debates or the committees, we will absolutely respect the figures that have been agreed on, so that Parliament can continue working as we maintain the proportions in the House.

Of course, in a period of crisis like this, it is extremely important that we continue to sit as parliamentarians in order to show Canadians that they can trust our institutions and our democracy. That is why the work continues to be done. We have been sitting three times a week for several weeks, twice by virtual means and once in person. In so doing, we can continue to debate important measures that we are putting in place for Canadians from coast to coast.

We are going to continue to work with all the parties in the House so that we can continue to demonstrate the strength of our institutions and our democracy in the face of this difficult situation. It is important to demonstrate that Canadians can trust their members of Parliament. That is exactly the work that were going to continue to do

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I understood that the number of people was determined because of health considerations.

I repeat that the government has made two formal commitments and it has not lived up to them. If we are giving specific powers to the government and the government does not live up to its commitment, why should we continue to give it those specific powers. This is just a matter of good common sense.

We were asked in writing what we wanted and we said what we wanted. So I am asking the Prime Minister if he read what we wanted.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Absolutely, Mr. Chair. We will continue to work with all members in the House in order to better serve Canadians.

I must point out that the proposals to improve the Canada emergency response benefit made by the other parties, including those from the Bloc Québecois, are taken seriously. We have been able to significantly improve many of the measures that we have taken for Canadians.

As for the concern about fixed costs, I actually made an announcement this morning that small businesses may have access to assistance in order to pay their commercial rents. This is an important factor that the Bloc Québecois had pointed out and that small businesses also told us about directly.

We are going to continue to do everything we can do to help Canadians and small businesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

We now move on to Mr. Singh.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, this crisis has laid bare the reality that all Canadians need access to paid sick leave. No one should have to make the impossible choice between going to work sick or staying home and not having paid sick leave and not knowing how they're going to pay their bills.

Will the government, will the Prime Minister, commit today that all Canadians will have access to two weeks, at least, of paid sick leave?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, since the beginning of this pandemic, we have been working very closely with the provinces and territories on measures to put forward to help Canadians. There have been many good proposals that we've worked with the provinces on, including most recently the commercial rent subsidy, which we announced this morning. It's going to help thousands of small businesses right across the country with the pressures they're facing.

On supporting Canadians, that was the very first thing we did—

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

We'll now go to Mr. Singh.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Provinces have called for it. Businesses have called for it. Will the Prime Minister commit today to two weeks, at least, of paid sick leave for all Canadians, yes or no?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, on this side of the House, we very much respect areas of provincial jurisdiction. That is why we are working with the provinces to respond to the needs that Canadians are facing that are within their jurisdictions. We are there to support the provinces—

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

We'll go back to Mr. Singh.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, the government has released their plans to help big business. On that, we want to be very clear that the focus should be on maintaining, protecting and creating jobs in Canada. Will the government fix their proposal so that money goes to workers and not to enriching CEOs?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, thousands of Canadians across this country work for large enterprises. That's why we moved forward with the large employer emergency financing facility, which will give loans, with very strict conditions on executive pay and on environmental regulations, so that we are giving the help needed to Canadian workers.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, the plan allows for CEOs to get bonuses. The current plan proposed by the government allows CEOs to increase their pay. Will the government commit that not a single cent of public money will go to enriching CEOs, and that all public money will go directly to supporting jobs in Canada?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, the large employer emergency financing facility will help protect Canadian jobs and help Canadian businesses weather the current economic downturn, but employers will need to show that they intend to preserve employment and maintain investment activities, commit to respecting collective bargaining agreements and protecting workers' pensions, and require strict limits on dividends, share buy-backs and executive pay.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Chair, will the Prime Minister commit to fixing the proposed plan to help big businesses so that if a business hides its money in an offshore tax haven, cheating the public, it will not get help, and instead help will be directed towards people, workers, and those who need the help right now?